kevinrex

CE2000 Power-On Problem

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kevinrex    0

At power-on, the clip and fault indicators flash for about 5 seconds then the relays click in--as normal. But then the relays immediately click out and the lights flash again for 5 seconds and the relays click in again...then out again...and so on. This cycle just keeps repeating and the amp is unusable :(

This is an intermittent fault. Most days everything is fine, but some days the amp just refuses to play ball. Any suggestions?

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kevinrex    0

Thanks for your suggestion, Bud. Yes, I have tried with inputs and outputs disconnected and it made no difference. For the last two days, it has not played up at all, though I have employed various percussive techniques to stir up the problem...ahem :rolleyes: (technicians should know what I mean). I'm thinking I will have to open it up and try to assure that the protection circuitry itself is stable, then look for some condition that might be hovering near the brink of triggering the protection. Maybe the output DC offset is drifting and occasionally crosses the threshold. I'll probably need a schematic before I go looking any further as I'm not on intimate terms with the Crown circuitry.

There is a Crown distributor here in Auckland but I don't know what the service is like. With an intermittent fault that only occurs occasionally, I'm worried that it might be money down the drain, paying for a serviceman to either not find the fault, or try something and assume the fault is cured, only for it to reappear in a few days or months. I've designed, built and serviced amps and other audio gear in years gone by (before I concentrated on computers and networking) so I'm curious enough, brave enough, and hopefully clever enough to do the job myself. Does anyone have a schematic for this beast or similar model e.g. the CE1000??? Cheers.

At power-on, the clip and fault indicators flash for about 5 seconds then the relays click in--as normal. But then the relays immediately click out and the lights flash again for 5 seconds and the relays click in again...then out again...and so on. This cycle just keeps repeating and the amp is unusable    :(

This is an intermittent fault. Most days everything is fine, but some days the amp just refuses to play ball. Any suggestions?

3113[/snapback]

Howdy,

Have you tried turning on the amp with nothing plugged into it, no Inputs or

Outputs?

If you have not, then do that.

If you have and the Amp does the same thing, take it in for Service!

You can find Crown Authorized Service Centers on the main website,

or send it in to Crown direct.

Call Crown if it's still under Warranty!

Good luck,

Bud

3116[/snapback]

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DGlass    0
Thanks for your suggestion, Bud. Yes, I have tried with inputs and outputs disconnected and it made no difference. For the last two days, it has not played up at all, though I have employed various percussive techniques to stir up the problem...ahem  :rolleyes: (technicians should know what I mean). I'm thinking I will have to open it up and try to assure that the protection circuitry itself is stable, then look for some condition that might be hovering near the brink of triggering the protection. Maybe the output DC offset is drifting and occasionally crosses the threshold. I'll probably need a schematic before I go looking any further as I'm not on intimate terms with the Crown circuitry.

There is a Crown distributor here in Auckland but I don't know what the service is like. With an intermittent fault that only occurs occasionally, I'm worried that it might be money down the drain, paying for a serviceman to either not find the fault, or try something and assume the fault is cured, only for it to reappear in a few days or months. I've designed, built and serviced amps and other audio gear in years gone by (before I concentrated on computers and networking) so I'm curious enough, brave enough, and hopefully clever enough to do the job myself. Does anyone have a schematic for this beast or similar model e.g. the CE1000??? Cheers.

At power-on, the clip and fault indicators flash for about 5 seconds then the relays click in--as normal. But then the relays immediately click out and the lights flash again for 5 seconds and the relays click in again...then out again...and so on. This cycle just keeps repeating and the amp is unusable    :(

This is an intermittent fault. Most days everything is fine, but some days the amp just refuses to play ball. Any suggestions?

3113[/snapback]

Howdy,

Have you tried turning on the amp with nothing plugged into it, no Inputs or

Outputs?

If you have not, then do that.

If you have and the Amp does the same thing, take it in for Service!

You can find Crown Authorized Service Centers on the main website,

or send it in to Crown direct.

Call Crown if it's still under Warranty!

Good luck,

Bud

3116[/snapback]

3119[/snapback]

Email me directly at dglass@crownintl.com with the serial number and I will send you the schematics.

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A_Guy    0

I am having exactly the same problem. actualy i started off with another problem that seems to of moved off in this direction. and it's realy stressing me... these amplifiers cost about 4X the price they are in america

First off the light's would flash red like they usualy do.. then when it's time for the amp's to click in they actualy turn themself's off, the green light fades out and the transformer turns off. that is what use to happen... sometimes the amp's turned on and sometimes they just stayed off.

Now the new problem.. just like the one mentioned above.. they switch on, the light's flash... the amp click's in... and then poof... the red light's flash... and then the amp's click in... same thing over and over again. REALY GETTING ME down considering the amp's are nearly new.

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DGlass    0
any one able to help out?

3196[/snapback]

It sounds like the amplifier is going into a general fault protection mode. Trying to clear itself and the problem is still there. As this could be caused by several different reasons I would suggest you get the amp to your Crown Distributor to be looked at. I beleive from your profile that you are in South Africa. The contact info for our Distributor there can be found on our web site at: http://www.crownaudio.com/gen_htm/distribselect2.php

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A_Guy    0

Problim is that they will not service it. it is going to cost me alot of money to get them fixed. they where bought from over seas and they wont service them here. so there is realy nothing any one can do for me?

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DGlass    0
Problim is that they will not service it. it is going to cost me alot of money to get them fixed. they where bought from over seas and they wont service them here. so there is realy nothing any one can do for me?

3209[/snapback]

If you purchased the unit in the US it is covered under a "US warranty" and would have to come back to the US for warranty service. That is the problem with purchasing from one country and transporting to another the distributor in that country is not responsable for products they did not import into their country. Besides that it is totaly at their discretion if they want to do anything with the unit or not.

If you will Email me directly at dglass@crownintl.com with the serial number I can send you the schematics but that would be the best I could do for you at his point.

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A_Guy    0

Thing with buying the unit here in South africa is that it will cost me about 2000$ for a CE 2000. doesnt that sound alittle steep?

Feel free to check up, as i was just going to buy a new one, and then i almost died of heart attack when i found out the price.

It's actualy realy bad how the prices can be soooooooo different. Isnt there something that can be done about this... it's criminal the price difference.

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DGlass    0
Thing with buying the unit here in South africa is that it will cost me about 2000$ for a CE 2000. doesnt that sound alittle steep?

Feel free to check up, as i was just going to buy a new one, and then i almost died of heart attack when i found out the price.

It's actualy realy bad how the prices can be soooooooo different. Isnt there something that can be done about this... it's criminal the price difference.

3212[/snapback]

Is that 2000 USD or 2000 ZAR? Retail or selling price.?

You say the units were bought elswere are they the right voltage (120/240v) and frequency (50/60 HZ)?

Although I have nothing to do with pricing of products you will have to keep in mind that there are exchange rates, import duties, shipping charges and local taxes and tariffs involved in the pricing as well.

Don't take this this the wrong way and I'm not saying you did this....most people that buy outside of their country usualy do so to avoid all of the above and don't claim the product upon re-entry into their country. Although these people save some money up front they risk needing to spend it later on should the product ever need servicing.

Even if you move to another country with your stuff, warranty only applies to the country of origin.

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A_Guy    0

that's 2000$ USD.

I did it the legit way, dont realy have a choice, cant get it out of customs untill all duties have been payed.

yes it is a risk. but i bought 2 of these unit's for the same price and imported them with all the taxes and still only payed half of what they want for one here.

and yes, the unit's i have are running at 240v. would it actualy make a difference the 50 or 60hz thing considering the amplifier work's off a dc voltage, should all be sorted out by the rectifier and the smoothing cap's that come on the board.

Another question if it isnt to "top secret" what are the voltages that come out of the transformer in the transformer? and how many amp's? also there is some kinda sensor in there, guessing it's to check on the heat? is this correct?

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DGlass    0
that's 2000$ USD.

I did it the legit way, dont realy have a choice, cant get it out of customs untill all duties have been payed.

yes it is a risk. but i bought 2 of these unit's for the same price and imported them with all the taxes and still only payed half of what they want for one here.

and yes, the unit's i have are running at 240v. would it actualy make a difference the 50 or 60hz thing considering the amplifier work's off a dc voltage, should all be sorted out by the rectifier and the smoothing cap's that come on the board.

Another question if it isnt to "top secret" what are the voltages that come out of the transformer in the transformer? and how many amp's? also there is some kinda sensor in there, guessing it's to check on the heat? is this correct?

3229[/snapback]

Except for the CE4000 the domestic CE 1000 and 2000 transformers are made to be for 120v/60 hz. Using a 60 Hz unit on 50 Hz could cause the transformer to Hmmm a bit. If however you did purchase the international 240v unit it would have a 50 hz transformer and be all right.

The device in the transformer is a 100 degree C thermal switch and is one three heat sensors built into the amp that can trigger the fault circuit.

The CE2000 transformer is a proprietary transformer and design information is confidential. However I can say that there is three power supplies the Low Voltage +/- 15v Supply, the Bootstrap supply and the High voltage Vcc+/Vcc- (+/-85v for the CE1000 and +/-98v for the CE2000.

If desired a service manual can be ordered from our Parts Department.

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Bud Bolf    0

Hi,

Just a comment, I see so many posts from people that have problems with their Crown Power Amps overseas and cannot get service.

Many times this is because they bought them here in the States and then took the Amp overseas.

If it is not because a Service center is too far away, it is that the service center will not even work on the Amp because it was purchased in the USA.

What's up with that?

Money is Money, Zar's is Zar's, etc. etc.

I do not understand that, here in the States if someone came her from Africa with a Amp and it needed Service, both Authorized and un-authorized repair facility's would repair it, no questions asked!

Granted if purchased overseas the Warranty would not apply in the States,

but the cost would be minimal to put it on a Service Bench for just an estimate.

How much in Zar's would it be for someone to look at it?

What if it's something simple?

I had a dead CE2000 that went in for repair and it was repaired with no parts in less than one hour on the bench.

I was initially told a few days for an estimate and then I got a call later in the same afternoon that I dropped it off that I could pick it up the next day!

I was blown away!

Does the lack of Service pertain to ALL Service facility's in Africa or is there only one?

I'm just responding because I feel your pain!

It's no fun with a Dead power Amp!

Good luck,

Bud

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jstutzman    0
Hi,

Just a comment, I see so many posts from people that have problems with their Crown Power Amps overseas and cannot get service.

Many times this is because they bought them here in the States and then took the Amp overseas.

If it is not because a Service center is too far away, it is that the service center will not even work on the Amp because it was purchased in the USA.

What's up with that?

Money is Money, Zar's is Zar's, etc. etc.

I do not understand that, here in the States if someone came her from Africa with a Amp and it needed Service, both Authorized and un-authorized repair facility's would repair it, no questions asked!

Granted if purchased overseas the Warranty would not apply in the States,

but the cost would be minimal to put it on a Service Bench for just an estimate.

How much in Zar's would it be for someone to look at it?

What if it's something simple?

I had a dead CE2000 that went in for repair and it was repaired with no parts in less than one hour on the bench.

I was initially told a few days for an estimate and then I got a call later in the same afternoon that I dropped it off that I could pick it up the next day!

I was blown away!

Does the lack of Service pertain to ALL Service facility's in Africa or is there only one?

I'm just responding because I feel your pain!

It's no fun with a Dead power Amp!

Good luck,

    Bud

3250[/snapback]

International warranty support ----

There is a lot of misunderstanding on Crown’s position on warranty service for our products when they are purchased in one country with the intent to be used in another. The Crown 3 year warranty is in affect with in the country that the products are purchased. The misunderstanding is that if a product is purchased in one country and taken into and used in another country that the warranty is valid with in the country that the produce is taken to. This is not true do to the following reasons.

All of Crown’s and all other Harman Pro distributors are independent distributors that are not owned by Harman, but are under agreement to sell and support our products with in their own country. Please understand that none of the Harman companies pay a commission to our distributors for selling our products.

They are required to purchase our products, warehouse them, market, support and establish a distribution network to sell our products. This is an expense to our distributors and they only receive income when they sell the products to their customers. They do not make any money on warranty service. Since it is at their expense that they provide the service and support they cannot nor do we expect them to support products sold by a different distributor/dealer. That is responsibility of the selling distributor/dealer.

Crown/Harman does not restrict a customer from buying our products and carrying them into a different country for their use. We do however ask them to understand that with the perceived savings that many think they are receiving by doing this that they are also responsible to understand that the warranty is valid, but they will have to return the product to either the selling dealer or to Crown in the USA.

For our international contractors who have projects in various countries and are doing turnkey installations, we give them two choices, either they will supply the needed support to the customer or they contract with our local distributors for the support.

I hope this give you a better understanding of our policy and the reasons for them.

Jerry Stutzman

Director of International Sales

Crown International

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Bud Bolf    0
Hi,

Just a comment, I see so many posts from people that have problems with their Crown Power Amps overseas and cannot get service.

Many times this is because they bought them here in the States and then took the Amp overseas.

If it is not because a Service center is too far away, it is that the service center will not even work on the Amp because it was purchased in the USA.

What's up with that?

Money is Money, Zar's is Zar's, etc. etc.

I do not understand that, here in the States if someone came her from Africa with a Amp and it needed Service, both Authorized and un-authorized repair facility's would repair it, no questions asked!

Granted if purchased overseas the Warranty would not apply in the States,

but the cost would be minimal to put it on a Service Bench for just an estimate.

How much in Zar's would it be for someone to look at it?

What if it's something simple?

I had a dead CE2000 that went in for repair and it was repaired with no parts in less than one hour on the bench.

I was initially told a few days for an estimate and then I got a call later in the same afternoon that I dropped it off that I could pick it up the next day!

I was blown away!

Does the lack of Service pertain to ALL Service facility's in Africa or is there only one?

I'm just responding because I feel your pain!

It's no fun with a Dead power Amp!

Good luck,

     Bud

3250[/snapback]

International warranty support ----

There is a lot of misunderstanding on Crown’s position on warranty service for our products when they are purchased in one country with the intent to be used in another. The Crown 3 year warranty is in affect with in the country that the products are purchased. The misunderstanding is that if a product is purchased in one country and taken into and used in another country that the warranty is valid with in the country that the produce is taken to. This is not true do to the following reasons.

All of Crown’s and all other Harman Pro distributors are independent distributors that are not owned by Harman, but are under agreement to sell and support our products with in their own country. Please understand that none of the Harman companies pay a commission to our distributors for selling our products.

They are required to purchase our products, warehouse them, market, support and establish a distribution network to sell our products. This is an expense to our distributors and they only receive income when they sell the products to their customers. They do not make any money on warranty service. Since it is at their expense that they provide the service and support they cannot nor do we expect them to support products sold by a different distributor/dealer. That is responsibility of the selling distributor/dealer.

Crown/Harman does not restrict a customer from buying our products and carrying them into a different country for their use. We do however ask them to understand that with the perceived savings that many think they are receiving by doing this that they are also responsible to understand that the warranty is valid, but they will have to return the product to either the selling dealer or to Crown in the USA.

For our international contractors who have projects in various countries and are doing turnkey installations, we give them two choices, either they will supply the needed support to the customer or they contract with our local distributors for the support.

I hope this give you a better understanding of our policy and the reasons for them.

Jerry Stutzman

Director of International Sales

Crown International

3253[/snapback]

Hi Jerry,

I for one do not have ANY PROBLEM with Crown or the policies set forth above!

I understand that the product Warranty is per Country of purchase.

My wonderment is that, since no Warranty is valid in Africa after being purchased in the USA per the OP, why a Service Facility, would not still let the OP bring in the Amp and let the customer just PAY for the Repair.

That was my Zar is Zar comment.

The Crown Authorized Repair Facility in my area (South Florida) is just that, a repair facility, in the business of repairing Amps and not Selling them, so there is no conflict of interest, just business is business!

If a person is going to purchase a Amp in the USA to defer the high cost to purchase in their country, then they should realize that any repairs are up to them!

A Guy said:

Problim is that they will not service it. it is going to cost me alot of money to get them fixed. they where bought from over seas and they wont service them here. so there is realy nothing any one can do for me?

The part I do not understand, is the part in bold, where "A Guy" say's

that the Service facility WILL NOT repair them!

Is he speaking totally per a Warranty repair, or that even if he agrees to directly pay the facility, they will still not repair the Amp.

Let us know Guy.

If he means that they will not fix it, even if he pays for it, well, It's anti American!LOL!

That's why I said that here in the states, if you have the money you can get

anything fixed, including Crown Amps!

I guess we are just spoiled by the free enterprise system!

Ahhhh the good ole USA!

Later,

Bud

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A_Guy    0

The problem isnt that they wont fix it... the problem is that they cant fix it. Phoned through and asked, they said they dont/wont repair the amp boards cause it is a waist of time, instead they will replace the boards.

So at the end of the day it's still going to cost thousands...

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jstutzman    0
The problem isnt that they wont fix it... the problem is that they cant fix it. Phoned through and asked, they said they dont/wont repair the amp boards cause it is a waist of time, instead they will replace the boards.

So at the end of the day it's still going to cost thousands...

3261[/snapback]

Thanks for the reply,

Any time you run into a situation where you can not get service or they can not fix it, let us know and we will work with you. Please understand that in some countries technical skills may not be at the same level as here in the US.

A distributor has our contact information for assistance on service issue and we encourage them to contact us for assistance if the service information that we provide to them on our service web site does not help them. Crown also holds official service schools internationally in which all of our distributors are invited to attend. We try to do our best to provide quality service world wide.

If you need service on your amplifier and can not get it locally, please contact our technical support center and they will assist you

Jstutzman

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Bud Bolf    0
The problem isnt that they wont fix it... the problem is that they cant fix it. Phoned through and asked, they said they dont/wont repair the amp boards cause it is a waist of time, instead they will replace the boards.

So at the end of the day it's still going to cost thousands...

3261[/snapback]

Thanks for the reply,

Any time you run into a situation where you can not get service or they can not fix it, let us know and we will work with you. Please understand that in some countries technical skills may not be at the same level as here in the US.

A distributor has our contact information for assistance on service issue and we encourage them to contact us for assistance if the service information that we provide to them on our service web site does not help them. Crown also holds official service schools internationally in which all of our distributors are invited to attend. We try to do our best to provide quality service world wide.

If you need service on your amplifier and can not get it locally, please contact our technical support center and they will assist you

Jstutzman

3262[/snapback]

WOW,

A Electronics repair facility that does not repair to Component Level!

I have never heard of that before.

I service Radiology Equipment for my day job and have to repair PCB's to Component Level in the field.

When I serviced Copiers, we did very limited PCB repair, but still did repair to component level.

I am sure that Crown will help you and will probably want to speak to your repair facility.

If they routinely just swap PCB's and never repair them, I would think that that has got to be costing Crown a lot of (Warranty) money, that they would not normally need to reimburse to a Qualified Component level Repair Facility.

Big difference in $$$ between a few Components, and an entire Main PCB!

The only option of course, is if the board was just literally Fried beyond repair!

However from your description and the fact that the Amp does power on, yet just flashes red, (Fault) with no smoke or burn smell's, it does not sound like it's fried beyond all recognition!

The plot thickens.

Bud

PS. Guy, turn on the Amp and give it a good smell in the vents, does it smell

that usually wonderful good component smell or a fried out burn smell?

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A_Guy    0

there is nothing burnt. as i said it was a fault that came and went... and now it is here to stay. there is no burning spell.

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jstutzman    0
there is nothing burnt. as i said it was a fault that came and went... and now it is here to stay. there is no burning spell.

3273[/snapback]

Hi Bud,

I understand your desire for the PC boards to be repaired at the component levels. I use to work on computers (main frame, not pc's) and fix them at the component level, but after the advent of the high density IC's it was no longer feasible to repair to the component level and it was more cost affective to replace the circuit boards.

This is due to the time and cost of locating the failed component compared to the price of a new board. Unfortunately amplifiers today are falling in to the same category with the advent of IC's and SMT's in use.

These new components allow us to give you more features at a lower cost, but also have the side affect of making it more complex and costly to repair to the component level. I am sure that you would not be willing to pay $60+ per hour for a service tech to try and locate a failing component with in a complex circuit compared to the cost of a replacement circuit board.

Yes the cost of a component is less then the circuit board, but the labor cost of locating and replacing the right component is much higher in most cases. This also allows us to have the units repaired and returned to the customers in a short time. This is important as most of our customers use our products for their business.

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A_Guy    0

Well I use the product's for a business aswell, it's just that it seems to get alittle expensive replacing boards the whole time. gone through 4 CE2000 boards in the last 2 years. i admit that the failing of the first two was my own fault (had a roof collapse in a rainstorm , the amp's ended up under about a foot of water).

It's just the second two just stopped working, if they blew up and there was sparks and fire... i would say *beep*... replace the boards. it's just there was a intermitant fault.. and then they just died, and i don't seem like the first person with this problem.

surely after one amp has been fixed, it's a *beep* of alot easyer to trace the problem.

I am personally blaming the humidity here where i live, it's just that i expect a pro amplifier to be able to continue working. The club is about 100 m away from the sea, and there is no aircon. It's just really disappointing and is getting alittle expensive to replace them.

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