tonygeno

XTi fan trip temperature

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tonygeno    0

Is there a way of raising the temperature at which the XTi fan kicks on? I know in a previous firmware it came on around 63 degrees and now comes on at around 53. Is there a way to go back to previous firmware so it comes on at the higher temperature? I am using the amp in a home theater and although it doesn't come on often, when it does it's very loud and distracting.

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DGlass    0

The temperature setting is set in the firmware by the engineers and is not user changeable. The decision was made to lower the temperature slightly and have it come on at a slightly slower speed after multiple request from end users to have the fan come on at a lower temp because they would feel better if the amp didn't feel so warm all the time. :unsure:

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tonygeno    0
The temperature setting is set in the firmware by the engineers and is not user changeable. The decision was made to lower the temperature slightly and have it come on at a slightly slower speed after multiple request from end users to have the fan come on at a lower temp because they would feel better if the amp didn't feel so warm all the time. :unsure:

Not the answer I was hoping for. So you can't go back to old firmware with the higher temp?

Thanks

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duffdog    0
The temperature setting is set in the firmware by the engineers and is not user changeable. The decision was made to lower the temperature slightly and have it come on at a slightly slower speed after multiple request from end users to have the fan come on at a lower temp because they would feel better if the amp didn't feel so warm all the time. :unsure:

Not the answer I was hoping for. So you can't go back to old firmware with the higher temp?

Thanks

Im having a major issue with the newer 1.1.4 firmware for all my xti4000s. It seems that someone decided to eliminate the temp controlled fan coming on altogether and now all of the amps which I updated are overheating and the fan is not working. I checked with some of my other xti4000 amps and verified that only the newest firmware prevents the fan from coming on, thus tripping the overheat indicator. Additionally, the updated amps are giving bogus fault readings like "short 1" when there is no short and the speaker works fine with non updated xti4000s. It would be great if there were multiple firmware choices: light duty (fan on at high temp) heavy duty (fan on at low temp) and extreme duty (fan on constant). This could solve many problems--including mine

T

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DGlass    0

We haven't seen this and are looking into it.

However, here is how to check to verify if the amps fans are operational on the updated units.

Press and Hold in the Center (Prev./Up) button while applying power to the amp. After about 4-5 sec the words "Press Me" will appear in the display. Release the center button. This will put the amp into a diagnostic mode were all the front LEDs will light and the fan should go into full speed.

To clear this mode either depress each of the three front panel buttons once (one at a time) or power down and back up.

A couple of fan modification were made with the 1.1.4.1 firmware:

*Added mode to increase fan speed sensitivity.

If the “Next” button is held down at start up, a more sensitive fan routine will be used. The fan will turn on at 43C and off at 53C. This operation is persistent (non-volatile) so you only have to do it once. To disable it, hold down the “Next” button at start up and the flag will be toggled off.

along with this another new screen to the self diagnostic menu. It displays which fan mode is currently selected. "Fan Hi" or "Fan Lo". Hi is the normal factory default mode, Lo is the new more sensitive alternate fan mode. The mode is selected by holding down the “Next/Down” button during power up. This will toggle between the two modes. In Hi mode, the fan will not turn on at idle; it will turn on at 53C. In LO mode, the fan will turn on at 43C. This mode is persistent and will not be changed by anything except the front panel button held down during power up.

(To get to self diagnose mode hold in the front three buttons togather for about 4 seconds. Then use the Pre/Up and Next/Down buttons to navigate throught he display windows)

*Added a new mode of operation.

If the “Sel/Enter” front panel button is held down during power up, the fan will run at full speed at all times. The only way to exit this mode is to hold the “Sel/Enter” button during power up again, so it acts to toggle this mode on and off.

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DGlass    0

I have just finished testing the new firmware in the XTi4000 in my office. I ran pink noise into it clipping the amp and at 53 degrees C the fan came on slow as the amp warmed the fan increased spead. At no point however did I get the amp to thermal.

We have not been able to reproduce the issue here so we are a little confused to the nature of the problem with your amps. Because of this we are not sure that you didn't get a bad download or something so I going to send you the firmware in a different format and a special loader program to your hotmail account. Use the program to install the firmware and try it again.

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HeadlineDJ    0

Excellent Stuff.

I actually came on here to find out if the fan temp could be changed and found this thread... talk about a freaky coincidence.

Great stuff!

One other question I had about the preset's which I may as well post in here as it will probably require a firmware mod to resolve.

When selecting presets it usually interupts the audio for a brief second and also has a small click/pop associated with it.

Not a problem when tweaking the system back as base, but when out on a job and I have to setup with people present it's something that I could do with avoiding.

Now, how hard would it be to engineer a soft ramp into the firmware so when you select another preset instead of dumping the current one and jumping into the next one, can it be programmed so it slowly fades to the new settings?

So if you alter EQ and some of the X-over filters can these be slowly implemented as though you were crossfading form one setting to the next?

Hopefully if it can be achieved it should get rid of any sudden audible noises on site.

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duffdog    0
I have just finished testing the new firmware in the XTi4000 in my office. I ran pink noise into it clipping the amp and at 53 degrees C the fan can on slow as the amp warmed the fan increased spead. At no point however did I get the amp to thermal.

We have not been able to reproduce the issue here so we are a little confused to the nature of the problem with your amps. Because of this we are not sure that you didn't get a bad download or something so I going to send you the firmware in a different format and a special loader program to your hotmail account. Use the program to install the firmware and try it again.

I will try it now. I just entered the diagnostic mode to verify that the fan is operational in those xti4000s. It seems that the fan works for the diag, but not when there is signal. For the record, the amp was so hot that I could not touch it and the fan was still not on.

T

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DGlass    0
I have just finished testing the new firmware in the XTi4000 in my office. I ran pink noise into it clipping the amp and at 53 degrees C the fan can on slow as the amp warmed the fan increased spead. At no point however did I get the amp to thermal.

We have not been able to reproduce the issue here so we are a little confused to the nature of the problem with your amps. Because of this we are not sure that you didn't get a bad download or something so I going to send you the firmware in a different format and a special loader program to your hotmail account. Use the program to install the firmware and try it again.

I will try it now. I just entered the diagnostic mode to verify that the fan is operational in those xti4000s. It seems that the fan works for the diag, but not when there is signal. For the record, the amp was so hot that I could not touch it and the fan was still not on.

T

Well............hot to the touch is a relative description. :D So I would say you would have to check the actual channel temperatures. This can be done by going ito the Special Diagnostic mode.

-With the amp on.

-Hold in the front three buttons togather for about 4 seconds.

-Then use the Pre/Up and Next/Down buttons to navigate through the display windows to the CH 1 and CH2 temperature displays.

-To clear out of this mode press the SEL button.

Note: When in this display mode other metering will not be correct so don't leave the amp in this mode.

It took me a half hour of driving pink noise into both channels of the amp to get it close to 53 degrees C (122 degrees F). I had to finally put the amp into hard clip to get the outputs to hit 53 degrees C and turn on the fan. Yes the amp was very warm to the touch.

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duffdog    0
I have just finished testing the new firmware in the XTi4000 in my office. I ran pink noise into it clipping the amp and at 53 degrees C the fan can on slow as the amp warmed the fan increased spead. At no point however did I get the amp to thermal.

We have not been able to reproduce the issue here so we are a little confused to the nature of the problem with your amps. Because of this we are not sure that you didn't get a bad download or something so I going to send you the firmware in a different format and a special loader program to your hotmail account. Use the program to install the firmware and try it again.

I will try it now. I just entered the diagnostic mode to verify that the fan is operational in those xti4000s. It seems that the fan works for the diag, but not when there is signal. For the record, the amp was so hot that I could not touch it and the fan was still not on.

T

Well............hot to the touch is a relative description. :D So I would say you would have to check the actual channel temperatures. This can be done by going ito the Special Diagnostic mode.

-With the amp on.

-Hold in the front three buttons togather for about 4 seconds.

-Then use the Pre/Up and Next/Down buttons to navigate through the display windows to the CH 1 and CH2 temperature displays.

-To clear out of this mode press the SEL button.

Note: When in this display mode other metering will not be correct so don't leave the amp in this mode.

It took me a half hour of driving pink noise into both channels of the amp to get it close to 53 degrees C (122 degrees F). I had to finally put the amp into hard clip to get the outputs to hit 53 degrees C and turn on the fan. Yes the amp was very warm to the touch.

Im sorry, perhaps I am not explaining the problem correctly. When I say the amp "overheats" I mean that it shuts off the output and the ready lights go out. I could care less how hot the amp was if it was still playing music, but this is not the case. All 4 of the amps repeatedly mute after about 3 minutes of use, they then come back on for about 20 seconds and continue to keep muting themselves every minute-- during this time, the fans in those 4 particular amps never activated. I have updated the firmware in the amps just now and will try them again in a few minutes.

T

edit: I activated the full speed fan option for those 4 xti4000's and one xti2000. They are all running fine in 110 degree ambient temp right now. The air coming out of the rear of these amps is extremely hot, much more so than my older MA amps.

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duffdog    0
I have just finished testing the new firmware in the XTi4000 in my office. I ran pink noise into it clipping the amp and at 53 degrees C the fan came on slow as the amp warmed the fan increased spead. At no point however did I get the amp to thermal.

We have not been able to reproduce the issue here so we are a little confused to the nature of the problem with your amps. Because of this we are not sure that you didn't get a bad download or something so I going to send you the firmware in a different format and a special loader program to your hotmail account. Use the program to install the firmware and try it again.

Hello David.

I have just duplicated your experiment in my shop with an xti4000 because it is very important that I get my amps to work correctly, my company is at risk of losing thousands per week if we can't please our customers. I purchased a commercial 2ohm non-reactive 1000watt dummy load and duplicated your experiment. I connected one channel to the 2 ohm load and used the DSP OFF preset in the amp with 1.1.1.4 firmware. At a -3db pink noise input, the amp thermalled at exactly 45 seconds into the experiment with the fan roaring at max speed, with only one channel being driven. The other channel was idle. The fan kicked in after only 17 seconds and very quickly ramped up to max speed, but it was obviously not enough as the thermal light came on at approx 30 seconds and remained on after the pink noise generator was stopped. Additionally, the xti4000 made a very odd hissing noise before the fan activated and continued hissing until I stopped the pink noise. I began to get a bit scared when the amp channel temp passed 77C and was still climbing fast...

The amp did thermal at a 0db pink noise level in about 10 seconds and turn itself off-- I measured 26 volts across the dummy load at max power for all 10 seconds, does this coincide with the reading you got with your xti4000? If so, that is terrible because that means theres only 338 watts in stereo across my precision non-reactive 2 ohm load when the amp thermalled!!!!

T

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DGlass    0
I have just finished testing the new firmware in the XTi4000 in my office. I ran pink noise into it clipping the amp and at 53 degrees C the fan came on slow as the amp warmed the fan increased spead. At no point however did I get the amp to thermal.

We have not been able to reproduce the issue here so we are a little confused to the nature of the problem with your amps. Because of this we are not sure that you didn't get a bad download or something so I going to send you the firmware in a different format and a special loader program to your hotmail account. Use the program to install the firmware and try it again.

Hello David.

I have just duplicated your experiment in my shop with an xti4000 because it is very important that I get my amps to work correctly, my company is at risk of losing thousands per week if we can't please our customers. I purchased a commercial 2ohm non-reactive 1000watt dummy load and duplicated your experiment. I connected one channel to the 2 ohm load and used the DSP OFF preset in the amp with 1.1.1.4 firmware. At a -3db pink noise input, the amp thermalled at exactly 45 seconds into the experiment with the fan roaring at max speed, with only one channel being driven. The other channel was idle. The fan kicked in after only 17 seconds and very quickly ramped up to max speed, but it was obviously not enough as the thermal light came on at approx 30 seconds and remained on after the pink noise generator was stopped. Additionally, the xti4000 made a very odd hissing noise before the fan activated and continued hissing until I stopped the pink noise. I began to get a bit scared when the amp channel temp passed 77C and was still climbing fast...

The amp did thermal at a 0db pink noise level in about 10 seconds and turn itself off-- I measured 26 volts across the dummy load at max power for all 10 seconds, does this coincide with the reading you got with your xti4000? If so, that is terrible because that means theres only 338 watts in stereo across my precision non-reactive 2 ohm load when the amp thermalled!!!!

T

Actually that is not the test I did. All I did was run the amp up hot enough to verify the fan turn on temperature as that is what this posting was pertaining to. During that time I did not see the amplifier react in the same way that you are seeing. Since you have two other postings and a PM concerning these same issue why don't we stick to this posting so as to keep all the information in location.

I have passed your concerns up the ladder and have requested it be looked at by engineering.

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duffdog    0
I have just finished testing the new firmware in the XTi4000 in my office. I ran pink noise into it clipping the amp and at 53 degrees C the fan came on slow as the amp warmed the fan increased spead. At no point however did I get the amp to thermal.

We have not been able to reproduce the issue here so we are a little confused to the nature of the problem with your amps. Because of this we are not sure that you didn't get a bad download or something so I going to send you the firmware in a different format and a special loader program to your hotmail account. Use the program to install the firmware and try it again.

Hello David.

I have just duplicated your experiment in my shop with an xti4000 because it is very important that I get my amps to work correctly, my company is at risk of losing thousands per week if we can't please our customers. I purchased a commercial 2ohm non-reactive 1000watt dummy load and duplicated your experiment. I connected one channel to the 2 ohm load and used the DSP OFF preset in the amp with 1.1.1.4 firmware. At a -3db pink noise input, the amp thermalled at exactly 45 seconds into the experiment with the fan roaring at max speed, with only one channel being driven. The other channel was idle. The fan kicked in after only 17 seconds and very quickly ramped up to max speed, but it was obviously not enough as the thermal light came on at approx 30 seconds and remained on after the pink noise generator was stopped. Additionally, the xti4000 made a very odd hissing noise before the fan activated and continued hissing until I stopped the pink noise. I began to get a bit scared when the amp channel temp passed 77C and was still climbing fast...

The amp did thermal at a 0db pink noise level in about 10 seconds and turn itself off-- I measured 26 volts across the dummy load at max power for all 10 seconds, does this coincide with the reading you got with your xti4000? If so, that is terrible because that means theres only 338 watts in stereo across my precision non-reactive 2 ohm load when the amp thermalled!!!!

T

Actually that is not the test I did. All I did was run the amp up hot enough to verify the fan turn on temperature as that is what this posting was pertaining to. During that time I did not see the amplifier react in the same way that you are seeing. Since you have two other postings and a PM concerning these same issue why don't we stick to this posting so as to keep all the information in location.

I have passed your concerns up the ladder and have requested it be looked at by engineering.

If there is any other information you need from me don't hesitate to ask, I am more than willing to do anything to get my amps working correctly. I have since tested 5 other xti4000s and confirmed that the hissing noise must be heterodyning from the PS and therefore normal.

T

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DGlass    0

Tim,

In my heat up test, to check the fan turn on temperatures, I used Pink noise to heat my amp up as fast as I could but the level I used was 0db. Like sine waves Pink Noise is a particularly harsh signal to test an audio amplifier with. Unlike program material pink noise is a pretty constant signal with a low crest factor of 6db. Essentially, crest factor represents the difference between a signal's peaks and its RMS power. Typically music has a crest factor of 10 to 20 dB. That means there is a 10 to 20 dB difference between the peak and the RMS electrical power of the music. A 6db crest factor is equivalent to a 2:1 ratio between the peak and RMS voltages, which corresponds to a 4:1 ratio between peak and average ("RMS") power. A low crest factor signal will make an amplifier work harder (and create more heat) than a high crest factor signal.

Pink Noise is not a real world operational testing for audio power amplifiers. Because of this you will find that amplifier manufactures consider 1/3 power pink noise as “severe clipping”. 1/8th power pink noise is generally considered “typical program material at maximum unclipped power”. The 26V across 2 Ohm test performed is actually slightly more than 1/4th power.

The differences you are seeing between the current firmware and the older firmware have to do with the changes in the limiter, to better protect the amp from the possibility of AC Current over draws. The limiter is driven off of the AC line cord by measuring the AC current line draw. What you are seeing is the amplifier limiting and doing what it is supposed to do with low crest factor signals that are over driving the amplifier. Amplifiers using the proper testing procedures will still produce the specified power.

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