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wiring my EQ to Crown XLS 602


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#1 emoon83

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Posted 04 May 2006 - 01:12 PM

This doesn't pertain to amplifiers as much as it does just sound in general, but for lack of discussion boards on sound reinforcement, (especially for beginners) here is my question.

I just bought a ART 355 dual channel 31 band EQ. Here is what I want to know: Can I use one channel of the EQ for the mains and the other for my monitors? Can I still run the system in stereo?

#2 Bud Bolf

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Posted 04 May 2006 - 01:42 PM

QUOTE(emoon83 @ May 4 2006, 02:12 PM)
This doesn't pertain to amplifiers as much as it does just sound in general, but for lack of discussion boards on sound reinforcement, (especially for beginners) here is my question.

I just bought a ART 355 dual channel 31 band EQ. Here is what I want to know: Can I use one channel of the EQ for the mains and the other for my monitors? Can I still run the system in stereo?
View Post


Howdy EMoon,
  In a quick reply, NO

Stereo pertains to two channels, you cannot run two channels through
1 channel or side of a Dual 31 band EQ.
If you run Mono Mains then YES one side could EQ your Mains and one side could EQ your Monitor.
If you want to keep your mains Stereo why not pick up another EQ for your Monitors.

A hint on the Monitors though, you should have a separate EQ channel for each
Monitor cabinet, even if you are only using one Monitor mix.
The reason is because when you EQ Monitor Cabs, two Monitors will rarely EQ the exact same, due to placement, boundaries, Mic's, Frequency's.
One Monitor may sound great with one EQ setting and yet the other may feedback at that same setting.
You are now forced to make changes to both because of the one!
Another thing to consider is, if you have 2 Monitor cabs and 2 Aux sends on your mixer then with a Dual 31 and a Power amp ran per channel, you can have 2 totally separate Monitor cab Mixes.
Meaning that each person per monitor can hear what HE or SHE wants.
In my Band what I want in my monitor is different from what the Drummer or Guitarist wants in his.
I am on Aux Send #1 on the Mixer, so I can go across ALL channels and by turning each channels Aux #1, I can not only decide which channels I want in my Monitor but how loud I want them in my Monitor.
Trust me the Guitarist's guitar is not in my Monitor, but you can bet it's in his!
Like you can't already hear him loud enough on stage!
What's with those guy's LOL!

Now if you are just a Solo or Duo act, you could probably just turn the Main speakers in a bit and not even need a Monitor.
I played many years as a Duo and never used monitors, just speakers on a stick thing!

Before I go farther with you, why not give us more Info on your exact Setup.
Front of House (FOH) info:
Mixer?
Crossover?
Power Amps?
Speakers?
Makes and Models and what you want to do with it all?

Monitor info:  How many 1,2,3 etc? Make and Model.
What are you powering them or it with?
Separate Monitor mixes or just one?

Later,
    Bud

#3 emoon83

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Posted 04 May 2006 - 01:59 PM

Thanks Bud,

Okay, here is a list of my equipment (as of yet, I buy new stuff each week)

Mixer: Eurodesk SL2442FX-Pro. It is a 24 channel mixer w/ 2 aux sends and 16 mono inputs

Compressor: MAINS. Alesis 3630. I'm using it for limiting. For monitors, I don't have a compressor yet as paycheck won't quite allow it, but probably the same.

EQ: MAINS: ART 355 dual 31 band, MONITORS, don't have one but I'm thinking probably another ART 355.

Amplifier: MAINS Crown XLS 602. MONITORS. Don't have it yet but will be powered by a Crown XLS 402.

Mains: JBL JRX125. They are a "quasi-three way system."

Monitors: Haven't bought them yet, but I'm thinking about Yamaha BR15Ms, 4 of them running off of one amp. Since they are rated at 8 ohms, I can run 2 off of each channel. I may do 2 separate monitor mixes later, but not right off since I'm a little strapped for cash.

Crossovers: None yet, I might bi-amp later on, but not in the near future (next 3 months).

Signal processors: I don't have any other than the comp, do you have any ideas for an affordable reverb processor to be used for vocals? The effects on the mixer are not quite up to the quality that I like.

Another question: Power conditioner or not? I've heard different things but I'm not sure who is right.

#4 emoon83

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Posted 04 May 2006 - 02:51 PM

Here are some more questions.

I've heard different things about stereo vs. mono.  I don't want to pan anything to left or right. I read one place though that running your system mono only used half of the amp's capability and that you would lose half the power. Is this true?

To expand on the monitor setup you mentioned, I can run 2 monitor mixes off of 1 amp? Meaning that channel 1 of the amp goes to Aux 1 and channel 2 of the amp goes to Aux 2?

If I do run the mains in mono, I will use 2 Y-cables right?

#5 Bud Bolf

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Posted 04 May 2006 - 02:59 PM

Hi again,
Your Mixer: Eurodesk SL2442FX-Pro
I hope that you have better luck with it than my buddy in Tallahassee, he had numerous problems with the Mic Pre's and lost channels and Behringer swapped it out while under warranty.
The Cancer continued after the warranty expired and he just wrote me an email that he had to finally trash it and he got a Mackie 1604.
This is a prime example of the saying "Cry Once, Buy Once"!
I advised him against the Behringer, but he did it anyway strictly for money concerns.
Yet today if he would have put that money with what he just spent for the Mackie he could have probably gotten a much better mixer.
Rant over!
But  just think ahead and get the best gear that you can even if you have to stretch the budget a bit, it will last longer and you will be happier!

Another thing that I would recommend to you is to get a DriveRack, the 260 if you can afford it but if not, at least the DriveRackPA!
I did not have an EQ, Crossover, Limiter, Delay, Feedback Supressor, etc.. etc..
Individually, you will spend more than the $400.00 or so that a DriveRackPA costs.
One of the best purchases I made for my PA!

You say:
QUOTE
Compressor: MAINS. Alesis 3630. I'm using it for limiting. For monitors, I don't have a compressor yet as paycheck won't quite allow it, but probably the same.


I do not use a Compressor on my Monitors, get a good EQ first.
I personally like the DBX EQ's.

You say:
QUOTE
Monitors: Haven't bought them yet, but I'm thinking about Yamaha BR15Ms


I have heard through many Forums that the Yamaha BR are not worth it, stick with the Club Series! Buy Once, Cry Once!

You say:
QUOTE
Signal processors: I don't have any other than the comp, do you have any ideas for an affordable reverb processor to be used for vocals?


I just got the TC Electronics M300 for $199.95 though I have seen it for as low as $149.95

The 2 Aux sends on your Behringer are going to start to hinder you a bit.
I have a Mackie 24/4VLZ Pro Mixer with 6 Aux sends.
I am in a 3 peice R&R Band and Aux 1, 2, and 3 is for Monitor Mixes for US.
Aux 5 goes to the M300 for Reverb and Aux 6 to the M300 for Multi effects.
In other words since the TC M300 is a Dual effects Processor with one side for Reverbs and the other for Multi-effects, I send Aux 5 and Aux 6 into the TC M300 and then return from the M300 to 2 Mono channels (19 & 20) on my Mackie.
This way I can control the EQ etc. per channel for the Reverbs and the Multi effects.

You asked:
QUOTE
Another question: Power conditioner or not? I've heard different things but I'm not sure who is right.


I have a Hubble rackmount strip in my Processing and Effects rack.
I also use PanaMax 6 plug outlet strips that Guarantee up to 25.000.00 if equipment is damaged.
You should use something and the better the better.
However do not use a Circuit breaker outlet strip for Power Amps!
I always plug my Power Amps straight into good Power!
My CE4000 will trip a outlet strip.

Another great place to learn is at ProSoundWeb's Lab Lounge.
Check out their "Study Hall" it is filled with days of good reading, you will learn a lot!
The smarter that you are, the better you will sound and the better gear choices and applications you will make!
Link here:PSW's Lab Lounge

Watch out for the LAB Forum, it is where the Pro's hangout, they do not take kindly to Newb's but it is a great place to be a Fly on the Wall and learn how the Big Boy's do it!

Later,
     Bud

#6 Bud Bolf

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Posted 04 May 2006 - 03:32 PM

Hi again,
   You asked:
QUOTE
I've heard different things about stereo vs. mono. I don't want to pan anything to left or right. I read one place though that running your system mono only used half of the amp's capability and that you would lose half the power. Is this true?


NO / False!

Unless they are saying that in Mono you are only plugging into one Channel of 2
channels of a power Amp, and thus only using half of the Amp.
The Power Amp is only going to process what ever Input it is given, it does not know or care if the source is Mono or Stereo!

You asked:
QUOTE
To expand on the monitor setup you mentioned, I can run 2 monitor mixes off of 1 amp? Meaning that channel 1 of the amp goes to Aux 1 and channel 2 of the amp goes to Aux 2?


Yes, Aux 1 would go to the Input of one Power amp Channel and Aux 2 would go to the Input to the other Channel.
Unless Behringer has your effects somehow included into these Aux's, I would have to look at the Manual for your Mixer. It is this way with my Mackie and most Mixers but like I said I would have to check the Manual on your Behringer, because you only have 2 aux's.
Are they Post or Pre?
Monitor Aux's are Pre Fader meaning that when you raise and lower the fader on the Mixer, it will not also change the volume of your Monitors.
If you used a Post fader Aux for Monitors then that would be bad!
You use Post Fader Aux's for Effects Sends.

You asked,
QUOTE
If I do run the mains in mono, I will use 2 Y-cables right?


NO / If you have a Mono out on your Mixer then you would only need one Y cable.
If you only have Left and Right outputs then just go left to one channel and right to one channel.
However if you only want to use half of your amp for the mains, then you would pan all channels to left or right and then come out of whichever left or right that you panned to, with a single XLR cable.
I would not trust the Behringer to sum the Left and Right outputs together as in a Y at the mixer to a single input at the Power Amp.
I would Pan the channels instead.

Later,
   Bud

#7 emoon83

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Posted 04 May 2006 - 04:00 PM

The reason I asked about 2 Y-cables is that I thought the schematics would look like this.

Y-cable connected to XLR Main Outs Left and Right on mixer - into 1/4 phone jack input on EQ.

From output of EQ (1/4 phone jack) to Y-cable connected to inputs of Channel 1 and Channel 2 of amp.

Am I wrong here?

I do have a mono out, and I would put the Y-cable at the inputs of the amp right?
On my mixer, Aux 1 & 2 are normally post-fader, but there is a switch on each channel that allows it to be pre-fader.

#8 Bud Bolf

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Posted 04 May 2006 - 04:14 PM

QUOTE(emoon83 @ May 4 2006, 05:00 PM)
The reason I asked about 2 Y-cables is that I thought the schematics would look like this.

Y-cable connected to XLR Main Outs Left and Right on mixer - into 1/4 phone jack input on EQ.

From output of EQ (1/4 phone jack) to Y-cable connected to inputs of Channel 1 and Channel 2 of amp.

Am I wrong here?

I do have a mono out, and I would put the Y-cable at the inputs of the amp right?
View Post


Howdy again,
I would not Y the XLR outs at the Mixer, this is actually shorting the L&R Outputs together and this can sometime's damage the Mixer.
That is why you have a Mono out, because it is being done electronically inside the PCB of the Mixer.
I would consult with Behringer before doing this.

I would use the Mono Out and do not engage the Filter at the Mono Fader or it will only send Sub Frequency's.
Your Mono out is 1/4"
So your wiring would be:  1/4" from Mono out at Mixer to 1/4" Input at EQ, 1/4" out from EQ to a "Y"  1/4" jacks, plug a 1/4" jack into each Power Amp channel.
I would also not use any XLR connectors because your 1/4" connections are not balanced!
Does the XLS 602 have a switch to Parallel the Inputs?

Later,
   Bud

#9 emoon83

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Posted 04 May 2006 - 04:37 PM

Oh I see.

The XLS 602 does not have a switch to parallel the inputs, is this a problem? It also does not have 1/4 jack inputs, only XLR. Aren't there XLR cables that are unbalanced?

Thanks by the way, this info is all really helpful. I have read several books on sound reinforcement and they have some very valuable information, but they are really skimpy on how to wire things.

#10 Bud Bolf

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Posted 04 May 2006 - 04:41 PM

Hi again,
I need to modify my wiring advice.
The Art EQ has RCA, 1/4" and XLR connectors and the XLS 602 does not accept 1/4" plugs.

I would still go from the 1/4" Mono OUT at the Mixer to 1/4" IN at the EQ, then XLR out at the EQ to a Y XLR in at the XLS602

I still say that you should just use the Art EQ in Stereo: L&R XLR out of Mixer to XLR IN's at the EQ then XLR out's at the EQ to the XLR IN's at XLS602.

Better yet, get a DriveRackPA for your Mains and use the ART EQ for your Monitors.

Good luck,
     Bud

#11 mooney59

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Posted 04 May 2006 - 10:56 PM

I second that regarding the dBX really a surperb unit.
I have a 260 and its so flexible, user friendly and intuative.NO more analogue filters with phaseshift at the Graphic EQ stage.