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CE2000 Power-On Problem


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#1 kevinrex

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Posted 18 April 2006 - 04:58 AM

At power-on, the clip and fault indicators flash for about 5 seconds then the relays click in--as normal. But then the relays immediately click out and the lights flash again for 5 seconds and the relays click in again...then out again...and so on. This cycle just keeps repeating and the amp is unusable    sad.gif

This is an intermittent fault. Most days everything is fine, but some days the amp just refuses to play ball. Any suggestions?

#2 kevinrex

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Posted 18 April 2006 - 09:56 PM

Thanks for your suggestion, Bud. Yes, I have tried with inputs and outputs disconnected and it made no difference. For the last two days, it has not played up at all, though I have employed various percussive techniques to stir up the problem...ahem   rolleyes.gif (technicians should know what I mean). I'm thinking I will have to open it up and try to assure that the protection circuitry itself is stable, then look for some condition that might be hovering near the brink of triggering the protection. Maybe the output DC offset is drifting and occasionally crosses the threshold. I'll probably need a schematic before I go looking any further as I'm not on intimate terms with the Crown circuitry.

There is a Crown distributor here in Auckland but I don't know what the service is like. With an intermittent fault that only occurs occasionally, I'm worried that it might be money down the drain, paying for a serviceman to either not find the fault, or try something and assume the fault is cured, only for it to reappear in a few days or months. I've designed, built and serviced amps and other audio gear in years gone by (before I concentrated on computers and networking) so I'm curious enough, brave enough, and hopefully clever enough to do the job myself. Does anyone have a schematic for this beast or similar model e.g. the CE1000??? Cheers.

QUOTE(Bud Bolf @ Apr 19 2006, 01:40 PM)
QUOTE(kevinrex @ Apr 18 2006, 05:58 AM)
At power-on, the clip and fault indicators flash for about 5 seconds then the relays click in--as normal. But then the relays immediately click out and the lights flash again for 5 seconds and the relays click in again...then out again...and so on. This cycle just keeps repeating and the amp is unusable    sad.gif

This is an intermittent fault. Most days everything is fine, but some days the amp just refuses to play ball. Any suggestions?
View Post


Howdy,
Have you tried turning on the amp with nothing plugged into it, no Inputs or
Outputs?
If you have not, then do that.
If you have and the Amp does the same thing, take it in for Service!
You can find Crown Authorized Service Centers on the main website,
or send it in to Crown direct.
Call Crown if it's still under Warranty!
  Good luck,
      Bud
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#3 kevinrex

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Posted 18 April 2006 - 10:00 PM

Thanks for your suggestion, B

#4 DGlass

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Posted 21 April 2006 - 01:36 PM

QUOTE(kevinrex @ Apr 18 2006, 09:56 PM)
Thanks for your suggestion, Bud. Yes, I have tried with inputs and outputs disconnected and it made no difference. For the last two days, it has not played up at all, though I have employed various percussive techniques to stir up the problem...ahem   rolleyes.gif (technicians should know what I mean). I'm thinking I will have to open it up and try to assure that the protection circuitry itself is stable, then look for some condition that might be hovering near the brink of triggering the protection. Maybe the output DC offset is drifting and occasionally crosses the threshold. I'll probably need a schematic before I go looking any further as I'm not on intimate terms with the Crown circuitry.

There is a Crown distributor here in Auckland but I don't know what the service is like. With an intermittent fault that only occurs occasionally, I'm worried that it might be money down the drain, paying for a serviceman to either not find the fault, or try something and assume the fault is cured, only for it to reappear in a few days or months. I've designed, built and serviced amps and other audio gear in years gone by (before I concentrated on computers and networking) so I'm curious enough, brave enough, and hopefully clever enough to do the job myself. Does anyone have a schematic for this beast or similar model e.g. the CE1000??? Cheers.

QUOTE(Bud Bolf @ Apr 19 2006, 01:40 PM)
QUOTE(kevinrex @ Apr 18 2006, 05:58 AM)
At power-on, the clip and fault indicators flash for about 5 seconds then the relays click in--as normal. But then the relays immediately click out and the lights flash again for 5 seconds and the relays click in again...then out again...and so on. This cycle just keeps repeating and the amp is unusable    sad.gif

This is an intermittent fault. Most days everything is fine, but some days the amp just refuses to play ball. Any suggestions?
View Post


Howdy,
Have you tried turning on the amp with nothing plugged into it, no Inputs or
Outputs?
If you have not, then do that.
If you have and the Amp does the same thing, take it in for Service!
You can find Crown Authorized Service Centers on the main website,
or send it in to Crown direct.
Call Crown if it's still under Warranty!
  Good luck,
      Bud
View Post

View Post

Email me directly at dglass@crownintl.com with the serial number and I will send you the schematics.

#5 A_Guy

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Posted 26 April 2006 - 01:18 PM

I am having exactly the same problem. actualy i started off with another problem that seems to of moved off in this direction. and it's realy stressing me... these amplifiers cost about 4X the price they are in america

First off the light's would flash red like they usualy do.. then when it's time for the amp's to click in they actualy turn themself's off, the green light fades out and the transformer turns off. that is what use to happen... sometimes the amp's turned on and sometimes they just stayed off.

Now the new problem.. just like the one mentioned above.. they switch on, the light's flash... the amp click's in... and then poof... the red light's flash... and then the amp's click in... same thing over and over again. REALY GETTING ME down considering the amp's are nearly new.

#6 A_Guy

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Posted 26 April 2006 - 01:19 PM

any one able to help with this problem? need my amp's to work. cant afford to replace them.

#7 A_Guy

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Posted 30 April 2006 - 05:30 PM

any one able to help out?

#8 DGlass

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Posted 01 May 2006 - 12:43 PM

QUOTE(A_Guy @ Apr 30 2006, 05:30 PM)
any one able to help out?
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It sounds like the amplifier is going into a general fault protection mode. Trying to clear itself and the problem is still there. As this could be caused by several different reasons I would suggest you get the amp to your Crown Distributor to be looked at.  I beleive from your profile that you are in South Africa. The contact info for our Distributor there can be found on our web site at: http://www.crownaudio.com/gen_htm/distribselect2.php

#9 A_Guy

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Posted 01 May 2006 - 02:30 PM

Problim is that they will not service it. it is going to cost me alot of money to get them fixed. they where bought from over seas and they wont service them here. so there is realy nothing any one can do for me?

#10 DGlass

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Posted 01 May 2006 - 02:47 PM

QUOTE(A_Guy @ May 1 2006, 02:30 PM)
Problim is that they will not service it. it is going to cost me alot of money to get them fixed. they where bought from over seas and they wont service them here. so there is realy nothing any one can do for me?
View Post

If you purchased the unit in the US it is covered under a "US warranty" and would have to come back to the US for warranty service. That is the problem with purchasing from one country and transporting to another the distributor in that country is not responsable for products they did not import into their country. Besides that it is totaly at their discretion if they want to do anything with the unit or not.

If you will Email me directly at dglass@crownintl.com with the serial number I can send you the schematics but that would be the best I could do for you at his point.

#11 A_Guy

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Posted 01 May 2006 - 04:51 PM

Thing with buying the unit here in South africa is that it will cost me about 2000$ for a CE 2000. doesnt that sound alittle steep?

Feel free to check up, as i was just going to buy a new one, and then i almost died of heart attack when i found out the price.

It's actualy realy bad how the prices can be soooooooo different. Isnt there something that can be done about this... it's criminal the price difference.

#12 DGlass

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Posted 02 May 2006 - 10:14 AM

QUOTE(A_Guy @ May 1 2006, 04:51 PM)
Thing with buying the unit here in South africa is that it will cost me about 2000$ for a CE 2000. doesnt that sound alittle steep?

Feel free to check up, as i was just going to buy a new one, and then i almost died of heart attack when i found out the price.

It's actualy realy bad how the prices can be soooooooo different. Isnt there something that can be done about this... it's criminal the price difference.
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Is that 2000 USD or 2000 ZAR? Retail or selling price.?
You say the units were bought elswere are they the right voltage (120/240v) and frequency (50/60 HZ)?

Although I have nothing to do with pricing of products you will have to keep in mind that there are exchange rates, import duties, shipping charges and local taxes and tariffs involved in the pricing as well.
Don't take this this the wrong way and I'm not saying you did this....most people that buy outside of their country usualy do so to avoid all of the above and don't claim the product upon re-entry into their country. Although these people save some money up front they risk needing to spend it later on should the product ever need servicing.
Even if you move to another country with your stuff, warranty only applies to the country of origin.

#13 A_Guy

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Posted 02 May 2006 - 02:00 PM

that's 2000$ USD.

I did it the legit way, dont realy have a choice, cant get it out of customs untill all duties have been payed.

yes it is a risk. but i bought 2 of these unit's for the same price and imported them with all the taxes and still only payed half of what they want for one here.


and yes, the unit's i have are running at 240v. would it actualy make a difference the 50 or 60hz thing considering the amplifier work's off a dc voltage, should all be sorted out by the rectifier and the smoothing cap's that come on the board.

Another question if it isnt to "top secret" what are the voltages that come out of the transformer in the transformer? and how many amp's? also there is some kinda sensor in there, guessing it's to check on the heat? is this correct?

#14 A_Guy

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Posted 02 May 2006 - 02:01 PM

they are aprox 12000 ZAR (south africa rands)

#15 DGlass

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Posted 03 May 2006 - 12:56 PM

QUOTE(A_Guy @ May 2 2006, 02:00 PM)
that's 2000$ USD.

I did it the legit way, dont realy have a choice, cant get it out of customs untill all duties have been payed.

yes it is a risk. but i bought 2 of these unit's for the same price and imported them with all the taxes and still only payed half of what they want for one here.


and yes, the unit's i have are running at 240v. would it actualy make a difference the 50 or 60hz thing considering the amplifier work's off a dc voltage, should all be sorted out by the rectifier and the smoothing cap's that come on the board.

Another question if it isnt to "top secret" what are the voltages that come out of the transformer in the transformer? and how many amp's? also there is some kinda sensor in there, guessing it's to check on the heat? is this correct?
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Except for the CE4000 the domestic CE 1000 and 2000 transformers are made to be for 120v/60 hz. Using a 60 Hz unit on 50 Hz could cause the transformer to Hmmm a bit. If however you did purchase the international 240v unit it would have a 50 hz transformer and be all right.

The device in the transformer is a 100 degree C thermal switch and is one three heat sensors built into the amp that can trigger the fault circuit.

The CE2000 transformer is a proprietary transformer and design information is confidential. However I can say that there is three power supplies the Low Voltage +/- 15v Supply, the Bootstrap supply and the High voltage Vcc+/Vcc- (+/-85v for the CE1000 and +/-98v for the CE2000.

If desired a service manual can be ordered from our Parts Department.