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XTI vs macro tech and the itechs


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#1 1budd34

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Posted 26 March 2006 - 06:00 PM

tongue.gif Hello, Let me start by saying i Love crown and have owned,micro tech2400,ce2000,ce4000 and a macrotech 2400 and the K2 and have been very happy with all of them.Now it is time for something new and i was wondering how the xti series would stack up to the ma and itech series because they cost a lot less than the other two series.Do they give up anything like performance or something to get the cost lowered?Are they madse in the USA?Any info on these amps would be much appreciated.Thanks Budd blink.gif

#2 DGlass

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Posted 29 March 2006 - 12:39 AM

The Xti amplifiers are being made here in the USA and are going to be the replacement for the CE series and will be as good if not better than that series. They are not a replacement for the Micro-Tech or Macro-Tech series nor are they a baby ITech as some people have been calling them. What we have done is to raise the bar for what can be provided in a cost effective amplifier that others now have to strive for in that same market place. smile.gif

#3 Bud Bolf

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Posted 29 March 2006 - 08:10 PM

QUOTE(DGlass @ Mar 29 2006, 01:39 AM)
The Xti amplifiers are being made here in the USA and are going to be the replacement for the CE series and will be as good if not better than that series. They are not a replacement for the Micro-Tech or Macro-Tech series nor are they a baby ITech as some people have been calling them. What we have done is to raise the bar for what can be provided in a cost effective amplifier that others now have to strive for in that same market place. smile.gif
View Post


Hi David,
Some questions come to mind as far as what trade offs there are between the CE Series and the XTi Series.
As far as the CE1000 and CE2000, the fact that the XTi is an Improvement, I have no question about that.

But what about the CE4000?

Though the XTi's do not have PFC they do advertise that the XTi's do have a "Switch-mode universal power supply"
and this let's the XTi's work with any AC voltages.
ie. AC Line Voltage and Frequency Configurations Available: 100V, 120V, 220-240V @ 50/60 Hz.

This also is why the XTi4000 is shown ONLY at 1600 watts @ 2ohms and 3200 watts in Bridged Mono mode at 4ohms.
Yet the CE4000 also with a Switch-mode power supply but with (PFC) Power Factor Correction,
has output ratings at equal to or greater than 200 vac as: 1800 watts @ 2ohms and 3600 watts @ 4 ohms Bridged.

There are definite trade offs between the XTi4000 and the CE4000!

1) Damping Factor: XTi: >500 / CE4000: >700
2) Switch mode Power Supply: XTi: __?__ / CE4000: w/PFC
3) Filters: XTi: Butterworth / CE4000: Linkwitz-Riley
4) Max output at 200vac+: XTi: 3200 watts / CE4000: 3600 watts
5) CE4000: BCA Technology / XTi4000  ?
6) CE4000: I series Topology / XTi  ?

Would it have been nice if some of the quality's of the CE4000 could have been kept under the XTi hood
and yet still do it in 2 spaces, with DSP, at 17lbs and BCA technology or was it?
Though it would then be more of a Baby I-Tech than the XTi is now.
I know from your response above that the XTi Series was never meant to have any links to the I-Tech.
What makes the XTi tick?

David, could you give US some more information on the XTi Series and what is the actual Design of the Amps?
What makes the XTi tick?
How do they compare to the CE4000?
What in the XTi Series besides DSP is better or worse than the CE4000?
Then,
What will be done with the CE4000, it is nothing at all like the CE1000 and CE2000?
Some people that had the baby I-Tech assumption of the XTi's have also thought of the CE4000 now being designed to be a NEW K3

Since I already have a CE4000 Bridged for one Sub cab, should I power my other Sub cab with a XTi4000 or another CE4000?

Have the entire CE Series amp line been officially discontinued and / or are any still being constructed?

My DriveRack handles the DSP and I did not like the Butterworth Filters on my System.
I wish that there were more Filter selections.
Of the Crossover Filters available, why was Butterworth chosen?
I see more use of Linkwitz-Riley than Butterworth.

More Information please.

Thanks,
Bud

PS. David if you can't talk about the XTi's that much, since they have not even hit the marketplace, I understand.
Just eager to know more about them.

#4 1budd34

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Posted 31 March 2006 - 07:08 PM

QUOTE(Bud Bolf @ Mar 29 2006, 08:10 PM)
QUOTE(DGlass @ Mar 29 2006, 01:39 AM)
The Xti amplifiers are being made here in the USA and are going to be the replacement for the CE series and will be as good if not better than that series. They are not a replacement for the Micro-Tech or Macro-Tech series nor are they a baby ITech as some people have been calling them. What we have done is to raise the bar for what can be provided in a cost effective amplifier that others now have to strive for in that same market place. smile.gif
View Post


Hi David,
Some questions come to mind as far as what trade offs there are between the CE Series and the XTi Series.
As far as the CE1000 and CE2000, the fact that the XTi is an Improvement, I have no question about that.

But what about the CE4000?

Though the XTi's do not have PFC they do advertise that the XTi's do have a "Switch-mode universal power supply"
and this let's the XTi's work with any AC voltages.
ie. AC Line Voltage and Frequency Configurations Available: 100V, 120V, 220-240V @ 50/60 Hz.

This also is why the XTi4000 is shown ONLY at 1600 watts @ 2ohms and 3200 watts in Bridged Mono mode at 4ohms.
Yet the CE4000 also with a Switch-mode power supply but with (PFC) Power Factor Correction,
has output ratings at equal to or greater than 200 vac as: 1800 watts @ 2ohms and 3600 watts @ 4 ohms Bridged.

There are definite trade offs between the XTi4000 and the CE4000!

1) Damping Factor: XTi: >500 / CE4000: >700
2) Switch mode Power Supply: XTi: __?__ / CE4000: w/PFC
3) Filters: XTi: Butterworth / CE4000: Linkwitz-Riley
4) Max output at 200vac+: XTi: 3200 watts / CE4000: 3600 watts
5) CE4000: BCA Technology / XTi4000  ?
6) CE4000: I series Topology / XTi  ?

Would it have been nice if some of the quality's of the CE4000 could have been kept under the XTi hood
and yet still do it in 2 spaces, with DSP, at 17lbs and BCA technology or was it?
Though it would then be more of a Baby I-Tech than the XTi is now.
I know from your response above that the XTi Series was never meant to have any links to the I-Tech.
What makes the XTi tick?

David, could you give US some more information on the XTi Series and what is the actual Design of the Amps?
What makes the XTi tick?
How do they compare to the CE4000?
What in the XTi Series besides DSP is better or worse than the CE4000?
Then,
What will be done with the CE4000, it is nothing at all like the CE1000 and CE2000?
Some people that had the baby I-Tech assumption of the XTi's have also thought of the CE4000 now being designed to be a NEW K3

Since I already have a CE4000 Bridged for one Sub cab, should I power my other Sub cab with a XTi4000 or another CE4000?

Have the entire CE Series amp line been officially discontinued and / or are any still being constructed?

My DriveRack handles the DSP and I did not like the Butterworth Filters on my System.
I wish that there were more Filter selections.
Of the Crossover Filters available, why was Butterworth chosen?
I see more use of Linkwitz-Riley than Butterworth.

More Information please.

Thanks,
Bud

PS. David if you can't talk about the XTi's that much, since they have not even hit the marketplace, I understand.
Just eager to know more about them.
View Post


#5 1budd34

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Posted 31 March 2006 - 07:11 PM

Yes i would like to know more about the xti amps also.Thanks 1bud dry.gif

#6 DGlass

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Posted 12 April 2006 - 03:52 PM

My apologies for the delay in responding as I have been out of the office overseas for two weeks.
So..... letís not jump the gun on what the XTi is or isnít from just the preliminary releases. smile.gif  Here are a few answers to your questions.

*Switch mode Power Supply: XTi: __?__

The XTi will be using a switching power supply that is auto ranging. It will sense the voltage it is plugged into and auto configure itself to that voltage range.
This new power supply is called a Digital VZ power supply. Without going into all the technical detailsÖ..if you are familiar with the analog VZ power supplies used in the MA3600vz and the MA5000/02vz amplifiers this is a digital version of it were the power supply will change modes for higher demands on it from the amplifier.

*Filters: XTi: Butterworth / CE4000: Linkwitz-Riley

The CE 4000 has a fixed selection of switch selectable High-Pass and Low-Pass filter frequencies. The High-Pass filter is a Butterworth 18-dB/oct with a frequency selection of Flat, 30, 40 or 50 Hz while the Low-Pass is a Linkwitz-Riley 24-dB/oct. filter with a frequency selection of Flat, 80 and 100 Hz.
The XTi on the other hand can be set via the HiQnet software with variable frequency High-Pass and Low Pass filters that have the options of a 24 dB/oct Linkwitz-Riley or either a 12 or 18-dB/oct Butterworth. The XTi crossover can also be setup as band pass filters. Both the crossover and the band pass have Band Pass Gain to boost or cut the filter if desired.
So in filter options alone the XTi has a whole lot more to offer than the CE4000.


* Max output at 200vac+: XTi: 3200 watts / CE4000: 3600 watts

This was a trade off of amplifier topology, size and weight.


* CE4000: BCA Technology / XTi4000 ?

The XTi series are all AB+B amplifier design topology. This is a tried and true topology like we used in the Dseries, PSseries and the CE1000/2000.


*How do they compare to the CE4000?

As good if not better in just about every respect.


* What will be done with the CE4000, it is nothing at all like the CE1000 and CE2000?

The entire CE series will shortly be discontinued. But you never know what might pop up in the future besides I couldnít say if there is or isnít going to be anything anyways. To many eyes watching. LOL biggrin.gif


* Some people that had the baby I-Tech assumption of the XTi's have also thought of the CE4000 now being designed to be a NEW K3.

Sorry no new Kís models are currently scheduled. The CE4000 was originally a test bed to prove the feasibility of the circuit designs and get the market place ready for what was to come in the I-Techs.


*Since I already have a CE4000 Bridged for one Sub cab, should I power my other Sub cab with a XTi4000 or another CE4000?

That would be up to you if you like to have a symmetrical looking system then I would get another CE4000 before they are discontinued. Otherwise the XTi 4000 would work fine as a replacement for the CE4000.


*Have the entire CE Series amp line been officially discontinued and / or are any still being constructed?

The entire CE series will shortly be discontinued.


*My DriveRack handles the DSP and I did not like the Butterworth Filters on my System.

I wish that there were more Filter selections.
Of the Crossover Filters available, why was Butterworth chosen?

See above we will be offering more than just Butterworth.

#7 Bud Bolf

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Posted 12 April 2006 - 06:32 PM

QUOTE(DGlass @ Apr 12 2006, 04:52 PM)
My apologies for the delay in responding as I have been out of the office overseas for two weeks.
So..... letís not jump the gun on what the XTi is or isnít from just the preliminary releases. smile.gif† Here are a few answers to your questions.

*Switch mode Power Supply: XTi: __?__

The XTi will be using a switching power supply that is auto ranging. It will sense the voltage it is plugged into and auto configure itself to that voltage range.
This new power supply is called a Digital VZ power supply. Without going into all the technical detailsÖ..if you are familiar with the analog VZ power supplies used in the MA3600vz and the MA5000/02vz amplifiers this is a digital version of it were the power supply will change modes for higher demands on it from the amplifier.

*Filters: XTi: Butterworth / CE4000: Linkwitz-Riley

The CE 4000 has a fixed selection of switch selectable High-Pass and Low-Pass filter frequencies. The High-Pass filter is a Butterworth 18-dB/oct with a frequency selection of Flat, 30, 40 or 50 Hz while the Low-Pass is a Linkwitz-Riley 24-dB/oct. filter with a frequency selection of Flat, 80 and 100 Hz.
The XTi on the other hand can be set via the HiQnet software with variable frequency High-Pass and Low Pass filters that have the options of a 24 dB/oct Linkwitz-Riley or either a 12 or 18-dB/oct Butterworth. The XTi crossover can also be setup as band pass filters. Both the crossover and the band pass have Band Pass Gain to boost or cut the filter if desired.
So in filter options alone the XTi has a whole lot more to offer than the CE4000.


* Max output at 200vac+: XTi: 3200 watts / CE4000: 3600 watts

This was a trade off of amplifier topology, size and weight.


* CE4000: BCA Technology / XTi4000 ?

The XTi series are all AB+B amplifier design topology. This is a tried and true topology like we used in the Dseries, PSseries and the CE1000/2000.


*How do they compare to the CE4000?

As good if not better in just about every respect.


* What will be done with the CE4000, it is nothing at all like the CE1000 and CE2000?

The entire CE series will shortly be discontinued. But you never know what might pop up in the future besides I couldnít say if there is or isnít going to be anything anyways. To many eyes watching. LOL biggrin.gif


* Some people that had the baby I-Tech assumption of the XTi's have also thought of the CE4000 now being designed to be a NEW K3.

Sorry no new Kís models are currently scheduled. The CE4000 was originally a test bed to prove the feasibility of the circuit designs and get the market place ready for what was to come in the I-Techs.


*Since I already have a CE4000 Bridged for one Sub cab, should I power my other Sub cab with a XTi4000 or another CE4000?

That would be up to you if you like to have a symmetrical looking system then I would get another CE4000 before they are discontinued. Otherwise the XTi 4000 would work fine as a replacement for the CE4000.


*Have the entire CE Series amp line been officially discontinued and / or are any still being constructed?

The entire CE series will shortly be discontinued.


*My DriveRack handles the DSP and I did not like the Butterworth Filters on my System.

I wish that there were more Filter selections.
Of the Crossover Filters available, why was Butterworth chosen?

See above we will be offering more than just Butterworth.
View Post


Hi David,
Thanks for all the responses!
I and many have been excited to hear more about the XTi's, it ALL sounds great!
I have been holding off before making a decision between the CE4000 and the XTi4000,
if it sounds and performs as great as you describe it,
then it looks like a new XTi4000 for me.

On another note, I was wondering where you went.
I was just about to start a Topic of, Is there any Crown Moderators around here anymore and where did David go?
I hope that you had a Great time overseas, welcome back!
Thanks again for the replies I'll look for more when they come out.

That brings up one more question, when are the XTi's shipping out?

Take Care,
    Bud

#8 DGlass

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Posted 13 April 2006 - 09:28 AM

XTi amplifiers should be shipping in the nest few weeks.