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Speak-On's and Bi-Amping.


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#1 rezsbc

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Posted 26 August 2005 - 09:14 AM

Just wondering how people normally do this....

I intend to bi-amp JBL SRX715 boxes from 2 separate crown amps.  The separate signal for the LF/HF drivers in these boxes are fed to the box with a single, 4-core speak-on connector.

That's fine at the speaker end but at the end with the amps how do I hook it up?  Can you buy a "Y" cable which will have 2 speak-on's at one end and 1 at the other?  Or does everyone just make their own cables to do this?

Shouldn't be much trouble to make the cables just have no experience with this and was wondering if there is an easier way,

regards,

Cathal.

#2 helicool

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Posted 26 August 2005 - 10:10 AM

Hey Cathal -

A few things -

- Which amp are you using? Some have NL4 outputs, some have dual banana, some have both.....

If you are using an amp with NL4 outputs (like the XS900 I just unpacked) you can connect a single 4-pole NL4 to the "CH1" output and and get CH1 on pins 1 +/- and CH2 on pins 2 +/-. - This makes for easy biamping.

What I've been doing is going the dual Banana route in my racks - each NL4 eventually leads to 2x Dual Banana plugs, for Pins 1 and pins2, allowing quick changes and bridging of the amp is need be while still using common cable.

I hope this Helps....


Ryan






QUOTE(rezsbc @ Aug 26 2005, 09:14 AM)
Just wondering how people normally do this....

I intend to bi-amp JBL SRX715 boxes from 2 separate crown amps.  The separate signal for the LF/HF drivers in these boxes are fed to the box with a single, 4-core speak-on connector.

That's fine at the speaker end but at the end with the amps how do I hook it up?  Can you buy a "Y" cable which will have 2 speak-on's at one end and 1 at the other?  Or does everyone just make their own cables to do this?

Shouldn't be much trouble to make the cables just have no experience with this and was wondering if there is an easier way,

regards,

Cathal.


#3 DGlass

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Posted 26 August 2005 - 04:53 PM

No one that I know of makes a SpeakOn "Y" cable. With  a "Y" SpeakOn cable the connector to the HF amp would have to be wired to 1+/- set of pins for Highs and the other amp connector to pins 1+/- for the lows. These wires would then have to be connected to the correct pins on the third SpeakOn. A problem could arise if the amp ends got switched sending the wrong frequency range to the wrong speakers. sad.gif

What I have done in the past is to make a custom output panel with a blank rack panel , a pair of SpeakOn Chassis mount connectors, four short lengths of 12 gauge (paired) speaker cable and four Dual Banana Plugs {2 red(highs)/2 black (lows)}. Each Chassis mount SpeakOn gets a 1+/- wire pair and a 2+/- wire pair that runs to the respected amp output channels connecting to the amps with the Dual banana plugs. this panel then mounts in my rack. This gives great flexibility especially should you need to troubleshoot the system because you can unplug a particular high or low speaker feed if necessary. smile.gif

#4 Bud Bolf

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Posted 27 August 2005 - 04:26 AM

Hi Cathal,
  David has it right. You need to make a rack panel for the back (or front)
of your Amp rack.
If you don't have an Amp Rack then now is a good time to get one.

You can use Banana's but I hardwired mine into the
Binding posts.
You can check out PartsExpress they have just about all that you need
to do this. Click here Parts Express

I used Neutrik NL4MP-UC Chassis mount Speakon connectors, they have
1/4" (.250) Faston terminals, so you can use the Yellow Crimp connectors that you
can find at Home Depot.
Just push the connector on to the correct terminal and if later your configuration changes,
it's very easy to change the connectors.
Mine have been wired in for a couple of years and the crimps are as tight today as when I wired my rack.
Look here:NL4MP-UC

The JBLSRX715 in Biamp mode uses 1+/1- for the LF 15" Speaker,
and 2+/2- for the HF Horn.
The LF and HF in these cabs are both 8ohm's in BiAmp.
The LF 15" Speaker is rated in watts at 800/1600/3200peak.
That is a lot of watts per channel at 8ohms.
What Crown Amps are you using to power these cabs with?
Are you planning on Bridging the LF Amp?

The HF Horn is not bad at 75/150/300 watts at 8ohms and per channel would
work fine.
It depends on your configuration on how you would wire your Amp Rack
and the NL4MP-UC's.
If you let me know, I will be glad to post a Config.

A great place for cheap NL4 speaker cable connectors and Bulk speaker wire
check out Camel Traders
They have the newer version NL4FX cable connectors for 2.85ea.
I bought like 20 of them when I was making Speakon Speaker Cables.
     Later,
         Bud
PS. I have never seen the NL4MP-UC version Speakon mounts locally,
just the NL4MP's with the real small terminals, and there not very good for 12 to 14 gauge wire.
I have 4 though, you want them?

#5 rezsbc

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Posted 27 August 2005 - 08:13 AM

Thanks everyone for the replies, especially Bud Bolf for the lengthy explanation!!

Someone did mention doing it direct to a wiring panel at the back of the case....I never thought of using the binding post outputs on the amp though that makes a lot of sense!!

Thanks again for the lengthy explanation, and the offer of the connectors.  I am in Ireland so it would probably be a bit awkward to post I will try to source them locally but maybe if I have trouble we can work something out?

Thanks again for the reply....you sound like a man after my own heart sitting down with a beer and some good tunes before you start wiring!!!

Cathal.

#6 rezsbc

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Posted 27 August 2005 - 09:20 AM

Bud Bolf....big ups...to answer your questions:



QUOTE(Bud Bolf @ Aug 27 2005, 10:26 AM)
The JBLSRX715 in Biamp mode uses 1+/1- for the LF 15" Speaker,
and 2+/2- for the HF Horn.
The LF and HF in these cabs are both 8ohm's in BiAmp.
The LF 15" Speaker is rated in watts at 800/1600/3200peak.
That is a lot of watts per channel at 8ohms.
What Crown Amps are you using to power these cabs with?
Are you planning on Bridging the LF Amp?


No we won't be bridging the LF amp.  We are going to run 2 of these off each side of an ITech6000.   The amp outputs 3000w p.ch. into 4 ohms, so with 2 of these per side each LF driver would get 1500w.

QUOTE
The HF Horn is not bad at 75/150/300 watts at 8ohms and per channel would
work fine.


Yes...much lower power so I'm going to run 2 of these off each side of an XS500.  This gives 500w p.ch. into 4 ohms, so each speaker would get up to 250w (actually what is the best way to limit this to closer to 150w??,,,,was just going to use the attenuation controls on the front of the amp that sound like the best thing to do?).

QUOTE
It depends on your configuration on how you would wire your Amp Rack
and the NL4MP-UC's.
If you let me know, I will be glad to post a Config.


Yes...you have been very helpful already but we would be more than gratefull for any assistance at all.....I am very new to this we are building the sound system to run parties but all our knowledge has been learned from the net/books and the prospect of doing all this in reality for the first time is a bit scary!!

Well up for the challenge all the same!  Thanks again for your help been a great assistance.  (p.s. if you have any pictures and can't post them here you can email me cmooney@iol.ie and I will put them in the post for others to see too).

Cathal.

#7 Bud Bolf

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Posted 27 August 2005 - 07:04 PM

Howdy again,
  OK, that's easy enough.
  
  I used two short 14/4 cables for wiring my rack, but two short 12/4's would work as well. Or four 14/2 (12/2) wires.

With one of the 14/4 (12/4) cables you would run this to the back of one of the NL4MP-UC's that are going to be mounted into your rack panel.
Cut back the Insulation and leave enough wire so they will all reach their contacts.
Crimp on the Faston connectors to each wire (over here they are Yellow Crimp's)
no matter how you do it you will connect the 4 wires to the NL4MP.

  1 wire goes to 1+ and one to 1- then one goes to 2+ and the fourth to 2-
Jot down the Colors of which wire went where!
Keep your Color Coding the same for both NL4MP's.

Now run the cable down (Or Up, depending on where your Rack Panel will be)
the side of the Rack to your Amps.
You will want to cut back the outer Insulation so you just have 4 wires, how far back depends on where the Amps are positioned.
You are going to run the 2 wires that you attached to 1+/1- on the back of the NL4MP to the I-Tech and the other 2 wires (2+/2-) from the NL4MP to the XS500.

The 2 wires that you connected to 1+ and 1- on the NL4MP will be inserted into
the Binding Posts that would be used (let's say this is for your left side, Channel 1) on the I-tech.
The other 2 wires (2+/2- from NL4MP )will be routed to the Binding Posts (also left side, Channel 1) on the XS500.

Now, when you plug in your Speakon Cable with 12/4 wire and plug it into the NL4MP in the Rack Panel and then plug that into your Left side Speaker Cab,
the I-Tech through 1+/1- is powering the LF 15" speaker and the XS500 is powering the HF Horn with 2+/2-

You now do the same thing for the other NL4MP, but this time, go to the Right side/ Channel 2 on each Amp

Another  hint is, before you actually insert the wires into the Binding Posts,
slip a piece of "Heat Shrink" tubing over each pair of wires and cut it
to length from where the wires will enter the Binding Posts to just back
to where you cut off the Insulation in the first place to free up the wires for connections.
Heat it  up and you'll have the outer insulation back over the wires,
and the wires won't be hanging out loose. Looks professional and neat.

Now, as I said at the beginning, you can also do this with four 12/2 or 14/2 wires and have one each go from let's say 1+/1- on the NL4MP (Left) to Channel 1 of the I-tech and another wire go from the 2+/2- on the NL4MP (Left) and go to Channel 1 of the XS 500. And of course the other 2 for the (Right) or Channel 2
Outputs on each Amp.

It;s totally up to you, Bottom line, your just trying to get one Channel of
the I-Tech to 1+/1- on one of the NL4MP and the other Channel of the I-Tech to the other NL4MP's 1+/1-
Visa-Versa for the XS500 and the 2+/2- contacts of the 2 NL4MP's

I used plastic wire ties to tie down my wires and route them neatly from the Amps to the Rack Panel.

That's it!
Get everything ahead of time, your Wire, Rack Panel. NL4MP-UC's etc....
Set up your Rack so it's comfortable to work on, Grab a Cold one and your good to go! Take your time and think it out ahead in regard to your wire Routing and layout etc..

I hope you can find the UC Version of the NL4MP's it really made it putting it all together pretty easy, and fast, just cut back a little insulation and crimp on your
connector, push it onto the Faston blade and that's it.

I think that I've been pretty thorough, but if you have any questions
just Post back! I'm sure it will go great!

I have one of those Label making machines and I marked each NL4MP at the Rack Panel, "Left Main" and "Right Main."
I have 2 other NL4MP's on the Rack panel for my Subs as well.
They are Marked, "Sub L and "Sub R" so I know (or someone else plugging in the Cables) which is which!
    Good Luck and have fun,
          Bud
PS. The attenuater's on the XS500 should do fine for the Horns, set your Gain Structure correctly and don't let them Clip.

#8 rezsbc

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Posted 31 August 2005 - 02:26 PM

Thank you again Bud Bolf really appreciate the time you have taken to help us!!

Just got word I should have everything next week so ready to get cracking!!

respects.