Xti 6000 Cable error
Posted 17 October 2010 - 08:12 AM
1 x XTI 4000
2 X XTI 6000
i'm using a (Sterio Mini Jack to 2 x XLR Cable)
if I plug it into my XTI 4000, there's no problems.
but if I daisy chain og connect it directly to the XTI 6000,
the amp plays even if it's turned all the way down,
if I open Band Manager, the input bars are clipping!,,,
if I disconnect the other end of the cable (the Jack Part),
so only the XLR are attached to the amp, the Input are still clipping ??
why does the 4000 work with this cable and the 6000 doesn't?
the amp's are set to "NO DPS"
the Firmware : 18.104.22.168 --- if I try to update them to the 22.214.171.124, it won't change??
Posted 18 October 2010 - 10:39 AM
1) stereo mini plug to XLR: you would benefit tremendously from an unbalanced-to-balanced converter box such as the Rolls MB-15B. This will allow proper gain staging and balanced inputs to the amps, reducing noise, solidifying audio grounds, eliminating EMI (interference), and giving you full output power.
2) DSP OFF has been modified: I can see from the video that this preset has been modified -- so the input mode might be Ch1+Ch2 for example -- if you want a plain, 2-in,2-out default setting, press ENTER 3 times in a row (to reload the DSP OFF preset)
3) Band Manager is clipping: the meters on BM are pre-input-knob, so they will still register signal input even with the knobs turned all the way down
4) Weirdness (XTi6k still plays with knobs down; weird-looking input clipping): my guess is that this has to do with the miniplug-to-XLR connection, probably a ground loop. If you must use the miniplug to XLR, make sure the positives are connected to pin 2 and the grounds are connected to pin 1. Also, short pins 1 and 3 together.
Posted 19 October 2010 - 05:13 AM
Is all of your amps connected to one single AC mains. 230 V 10 A is what I assume you have.
If its so then your AC main is to small. Try the same XLR-cable on the other XTi6000 and see if its not a cable issue.
FYI, you can by AC-main cable anywhere you want. Local electrical deealer should have this.
You can order this kind of cable via Supra Jenving. It is shielded and 2,5 mm2 cable
This cable is rated for 16 A, and that is what you have from Crown. I assume that you checked the cable pin for pin with your Fluke meusurment. Both XLR and the main. I dont think that the main cable is without ground. Then it has passed all regulation checkes.
Posted 19 October 2010 - 06:11 AM
both amp's are having the same problem... no matter the cable i plug in it...
no. you cant buy the cable in the local store... i can order it,, for an insane amount of money...
you can buy a plug to put on the top of the cable... but thats not rated for over 10 amp..
oki... if you want it.. ill go make a video response,, with :
3x32 amp... balanced cables, pioneer cdj2000 and djm 2000, ill ground my amps... but that wont solve the problem!
because that was the setup, the first time we noticed the problem..
are you denying that the amp's have a problem ?? that I'm the source of this problem in some way??
FYI: it's not a standart power cable! not even thomann.de have the cable!they told me to order it from you guys.
I checked all cables, there are no connection between any of the pins in the xlr.
my regards to crown.
Posted 19 October 2010 - 08:26 AM
Fiirst of all, Im not from Crown, I am just a private guy who wanna help out.
Secondly, I am not denying that you might have a problem with your amps.
First you a sying that it is 3*16 A from your stove ( and what is a stove ????). Do you mean 1 phase or 3 phase
AC main 230 V ??
Later you gonna connect it to 3* 32 A?????
Regarding cable for 16 A is a standard IEC320 looks like a square. 10 A is cut in the corner still IEC320.
Look on the internet and seek for IEC320 16A or wikipedia, then you know what I mean. Check out the link.
For me it is strange that you got a cable that is made for grounding dont have grounding. Is it the same for your second amp.
Have to ask again, have you checked the main cable with your instrument (ohms) from one end to the other??
But maybe this wont solve your problem with your amp, ground or not ground. The only thing that is clear is when you connect the XLR you have the problem, disconnect it dissapear.
Posted 19 October 2010 - 10:10 AM
OK, summary so far: yes, it's possible there is a problem with the amp. We're hopefully getting closer to a conclusion.
1) the main problem I see here is that BM is showing a false signal. The o-scope measurement you did between pins 2 and 3 that shows a 50Hz tone isn't conclusive because there isn't a ground (both pins 2 and 3 are active signal). It would be better to measure between pins 1 and 2 or 1 and 3.
2) We also have a problem that the 6k is giving output with the pots turned all the way down.
3) The schuko AC cable we provide has metal contacts for grounding oriented at 12 and 6 o'clock -- these should make contact with small grounds pin at the outlet.
I'm going to test a 6k in our lab here. Does your other XTi6k have this behavior? Thanks for your patience with this.
Posted 19 October 2010 - 10:39 AM
frist time we had this problem, were at a gig.
3x32 amp phase, balanced cables, pioneer cdj2000 and djm 2000,
8 x pd186 / 18" subs,
4 top dobbel RCF L15s800 15" with B&C DE750 2" driver.
I hope that the video is enough proof, that this is a REAL problem, and not just child's play.
so i took them home, disconnected my cooking plate (3X16amp) and connected my amps.
i'll measure between 1 and 2 or 1 and 3 this evening, and response back
what about the amp firmware? why cant i update it to 126.96.36.199 ?
the 2'end amp doesn't give any output, with the pots turned all the way down,
but it's still clipping the inputs.
the plug I were talking about, the one i have ain't rated for over 10 amp..
schuko AC cable has metal contacts for grounding, yes that correct, but we dont have the ground connector plate in the wall output here in denmark, neither do we have it in the power box
I know that you are a private person, and thx for the help, I highly doubt that my cables are coursing the problem, i'd tryed several cables(new and old) if you like me to messure them, i'll do that this evening
sorry for the hard words, this is just beginning to get to my head
Posted 19 October 2010 - 04:02 PM
measured on output from xti (xlr in)
1 & 3 = 4.4v P/P 50hz
1 & 2 = 4.2v P/P 50hz
measured on cable:
0,24s, 60cm, xlr cable: 0,062 ohm
(0,018 x 0,60) : 0,24 = 0,045ohm
I might need to calibrated my fluke, to measure this small value more precisely.
no connections between any of the 1, 2 and 3 pin in the xlr cable
Posted 20 October 2010 - 05:08 AM
No offence taken
I just get confused when you say that there isn't a ground in the powercable from Crown.
What I can see from your second video is that there is a ground on that cable, as Kevin mentioned in answer #3. I still want you to measure with ohm or summer(buzz) between each end of the powercord cable pin for pin.
I dont know how you connect stoves(ugn/spis) in Denmark but here in Sweden, the normal way to connect a stove is, if you have stove that is 400 V, L1,L2,L3 and ground without neutral.
So, you must take one of the phase from your stove L1, Neutral and ground. I would like you to show in your next video how the connection is done in your case. If it is connected as I mentioned then you don't have any neutral to your amp.
So, if my undrstanding is correct, that you dont have any grounding in your house???
Regarding problem on amp, be patient as solution will come to you from Crown
Posted 20 October 2010 - 05:54 AM
L1 + N = 230v 16 amp
L2 + N = 230v 16 amp
L3 + N = 230v 16 amp
L1 + L2 = 440v 16 amp.
L2 + L3 = 440v 16 amp.
L1 + L3 = 440v 16 amp.
this is not the problem...
I got a ground in my house, but you need a special plug to ground the cable i got from crown, the only problem is that it's rated to max 10 amp.
if I plug the ground plug on the cable I got from crown, it will permanently stick to the cable
any way the power to my amp's ain't the source of the problem.
Posted 20 October 2010 - 10:19 AM
A quick check of our 6k in the lab here didn't yield any of the problems you're seeing, unfortunately.
What happens when you try to upgrade the firmware on the 6k?
Posted 20 October 2010 - 04:39 PM
2. Cloader shows:
Crown USB Amplifier
USB Driver Ver 1.102
Flash Ver: 188.8.131.52
Micro Ver: 184.108.40.206
3. load file: XTI1156.s
4. Cloader shows :
Amp has a Serial Number
Amp Address = 2
Wait - Finalizing
Amplifier Programmed Sucessfully
5. it transmits all the data (1024byte) while the amp flashes from side to side
6. the amp reboots and Cloader shows :
Crown USB Amplifier
USB Driver Ver 1.102
Flash Ver: 220.127.116.11
Micro Ver: 18.104.22.168
if i don't connect any cables to the amp:
after only 2min:
and it stays there
the fan is set to hi, but the fan starts when i power up the amp, and it stays on.
the signal diode's are always on.
but after about 10 min. the signal diode's starts blinking.
ill try to get my amp grounded tomorrow but i'm almost certain that it wont help
Posted 21 October 2010 - 10:45 AM