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xls 402d noises


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#1 puck

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Posted 31 May 2006 - 11:03 PM

I'm new here all. Bare with me. I just purchased a new XLS 402D to power my new bass guitar cabinet. When I power the thing down (bridged mono,channel 1 "volume" control down or off) I get a horribly loud pop in my cabinet. I have used 2 CE1000's for the past 3 years for my PA and never had them make ANY kind of noise at shut-down. I get this pop with the preamp down or off also. It sounds like it is sad.gif  being created exclusively by the amp itself. I guess I could unplug the speaker cable prior to shut-down...but that's kind of stupid to have to do this everytime I shut down. Does anybody have any ideas on this? Thanks

#2 DGlass

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Posted 01 June 2006 - 09:56 AM

All electronics will make a pop when powered down due the power supply going off. However most high power electronic gear (like amps) will have one scheme or another that will keep the POP from getting out of the amp to the speakers.

The XLS amplifiers have an output relay that should shut off the outputs before the power supply drains far enough to make an audible POP. You may have a malfunctioning, stuck or hanging relay.

One way to tell if it is stuck is to listen to the amp when it is turned on you should hear two small clicks (click-click) as the relays engage to pass audio. If you hear both of these clicks than it is probibly the output realy hanging/sticking on shut off.

#3 puck

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Posted 01 June 2006 - 05:59 PM

QUOTE(DGlass @ Jun 1 2006, 11:56 AM)
All electronics will make a pop when powered down due the power supply going off. However most high power electronic gear (like amps) will have one scheme or another that will keep the POP from getting out of the amp to the speakers.

The XLS amplifiers have an output relay that should shut off the outputs before the power supply drains far enough to make an audible POP. You may have a malfunctioning, stuck or hanging relay.

One way to tell if it is stuck is to listen to the amp when it is turned on you should hear two small clicks (click-click) as the relays engage to pass audio. If you hear both of these clicks than it is probibly the output realy hanging/sticking on shut off.
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dry.gif I hear only ONE relay "click" after the fan goes through it's "high speed test" mode. A second click does not exist

#4 DGlass

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Posted 06 June 2006 - 10:00 AM

QUOTE(puck @ Jun 1 2006, 05:59 PM)
QUOTE(DGlass @ Jun 1 2006, 11:56 AM)
All electronics will make a pop when powered down due the power supply going off. However most high power electronic gear (like amps) will have one scheme or another that will keep the POP from getting out of the amp to the speakers.

The XLS amplifiers have an output relay that should shut off the outputs before the power supply drains far enough to make an audible POP. You may have a malfunctioning, stuck or hanging relay.

One way to tell if it is stuck is to listen to the amp when it is turned on you should hear two small clicks (click-click) as the relays engage to pass audio. If you hear both of these clicks than it is probibly the output realy hanging/sticking on shut off.
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dry.gif I hear only ONE relay "click" after the fan goes through it's "high speed test" mode. A second click does not exist
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I have put in a question to the engineers on this and hope to hear from them soon.

However, the amp should not be making any poping noise when shut down. huh.gif

#5 puck

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Posted 06 June 2006 - 09:43 PM

Well... I just took the amp in (one week old) to an authorized service center for repair. I just hope this is going to be a reliable amp for many years to come. I have a hunch that perhaps I should have purchased a Crown model that was American made, or purchased another brand. (this amp is made in China) Go figure. I may very well go with a different brand and research it a bit closer.  Thanks for all of your help David. Much appreciated !

#6 DGlass

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Posted 08 June 2006 - 09:35 AM

QUOTE(puck @ Jun 6 2006, 09:43 PM)
Well... I just took the amp in (one week old) to an authorized service center for repair. I just hope this is going to be a reliable amp for many years to come. I have a hunch that perhaps I should have purchased a Crown model that was American made, or purchased another brand. (this amp is made in China) Go figure. I may very well go with a different brand and research it a bit closer.  Thanks for all of your help David. Much appreciated !
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Our apologies for any issue you have been having with the amplifier but be assured that even if a product is made over seas, for Crown, it is still a Crown design and is to meet the design parameters.
The XLS series has been a very reliable series for us but occasionally parts come into any manufacture that when tested everything appears alright and then shortly later will develop a problem. Be assured we take any potential issues seriously and that we are looking into this. smile.gif

#7 puck

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Posted 30 June 2006 - 07:44 AM

QUOTE(DGlass @ Jun 8 2006, 11:35 AM)
QUOTE(puck @ Jun 6 2006, 09:43 PM)
Well... I just took the amp in (one week old) to an authorized service center for repair. I just hope this is going to be a reliable amp for many years to come. I have a hunch that perhaps I should have purchased a Crown model that was American made, or purchased another brand. (this amp is made in China) Go figure. I may very well go with a different brand and research it a bit closer.  Thanks for all of your help David. Much appreciated !
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Our apologies for any issue you have been having with the amplifier but be assured that even if a product is made over seas, for Crown, it is still a Crown design and is to meet the design parameters.
The XLS series has been a very reliable series for us but occasionally parts come into any manufacture that when tested everything appears alright and then shortly later will develop a problem. Be assured we take any potential issues seriously and that we are looking into this. smile.gif
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Well, here it is. Almost exactly 1 month since I took my brand new,fresh out-of-the-box in for service. It is being serviced by a factory authorized center, which happens to be the best one in my area. After a call to them regarding the status of this repair, I was told," We have an issue with this amp. We are working with the factory. We're going back and forth with the phones."  So... Is there some kind of design problem with this amp? How do I know this thing is going to get me through all of my shows? Am I happy with this purchase? Absolutely not! I do regret not buying my second choice. (which was another brand)    I guess this could happen to any piece of equipment.    Am I crying over nothing? Maybe.   My situation has many of my fellow musicians really questioning Crown's quality. Especially this model. It looks like it's time to dump it and purchase elsewhere.

#8 johnnybon

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Posted 30 June 2006 - 11:28 AM

I just purchased 3 XLS-402D's to add to my existing 402B and I am also getting a loud pop on shutdown of the 402D amps. At first I thought I blew my speakers it was so loud. Now upon shut down I have to turn the gains all the way down before shutting the amp off. This seems to help somewhat helpful but still I get a small pop upon shutdown. If this is a defect please let me know. I would be a great inconvience to ship out three amps for repair.

#9 puck

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Posted 30 June 2006 - 12:33 PM

QUOTE(johnnybon @ Jun 30 2006, 01:28 PM)
I just purchased 3 XLS-402D's to add to my existing 402B and I am also getting a loud pop on shutdown of the 402D amps. At first I thought I blew my speakers it was so loud. Now upon shut down I have to turn the gains all the way down before shutting the amp off. This seems to help somewhat helpful but still I get a small pop upon shutdown. If this is a defect please let me know. I would be a great inconvience to ship out three amps for repair.
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With mine, the gains were down, the preamp was unplugged from the amp ( in other words, there were no outboard signals coming into the amp... and it still made a pop ,as you described, like your speakers were getting blown out. That sound makes you real nervous coming from your brand new Mesa powerhouse 1000 cabinet !!!!!   I am going to call the repair shop and see if they will tell me what the "issue" is with the amp. I'll post their reply.

#10 jason86

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Posted 04 July 2006 - 07:46 PM

i just purchased 2 402d's and 1 202d i am waiting for them in the mail but now i am worried that they will have the "POP" problem on shutdown. i'm thinking about telling the ups driver to return these amps to sender and purchasing "C" series instead. they have had your amp for a month!! how long should it take if it was just a relay. really got me thinking now.

#11 DGlass

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Posted 05 July 2006 - 03:40 PM

QUOTE(puck @ Jun 30 2006, 12:33 PM)
QUOTE(johnnybon @ Jun 30 2006, 01:28 PM)
I just purchased 3 XLS-402D's to add to my existing 402B and I am also getting a loud pop on shutdown of the 402D amps. At first I thought I blew my speakers it was so loud. Now upon shut down I have to turn the gains all the way down before shutting the amp off. This seems to help somewhat helpful but still I get a small pop upon shutdown. If this is a defect please let me know. I would be a great inconvience to ship out three amps for repair.
View Post

With mine, the gains were down, the preamp was unplugged from the amp ( in other words, there were no outboard signals coming into the amp... and it still made a pop ,as you described, like your speakers were getting blown out. That sound makes you real nervous coming from your brand new Mesa powerhouse 1000 cabinet !!!!!   I am going to call the repair shop and see if they will tell me what the "issue" is with the amp. I'll post their reply.
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If you are still having problems with the amp(s) please contact the dealer you purchased them from to have them do an exchange as we cannot do direct to end user exchanges. If they have have any questions have them contact me?

#12 puck

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Posted 09 July 2006 - 09:34 AM

QUOTE(DGlass @ Jul 5 2006, 05:40 PM)
QUOTE(puck @ Jun 30 2006, 12:33 PM)
QUOTE(johnnybon @ Jun 30 2006, 01:28 PM)
I just purchased 3 XLS-402D's to add to my existing 402B and I am also getting a loud pop on shutdown of the 402D amps. At first I thought I blew my speakers it was so loud. Now upon shut down I have to turn the gains all the way down before shutting the amp off. This seems to help somewhat helpful but still I get a small pop upon shutdown. If this is a defect please let me know. I would be a great inconvience to ship out three amps for repair.
View Post

With mine, the gains were down, the preamp was unplugged from the amp ( in other words, there were no outboard signals coming into the amp... and it still made a pop ,as you described, like your speakers were getting blown out. That sound makes you real nervous coming from your brand new Mesa powerhouse 1000 cabinet !!!!!   I am going to call the repair shop and see if they will tell me what the "issue" is with the amp. I'll post their reply.
View Post

If you are still having problems with the amp(s) please contact the dealer you purchased them from to have them do an exchange as we cannot do direct to end user exchanges. If they have have any questions have them contact me?
View Post

Finally, after 5 weeks in the repair shop, and a long discussion with Mr. Glass at Crown, I have my amp back. I am going to do an exchange through my dealer to get a replacement. The repair shop said," It works fine. We're not getting any popping at all." So they actually did not do anything to it. Maybe the relay that David was talking about became "unstuck" in their care. So...I take the amp and hook it all up, hoping that maybe all is well and I won't have to send it back. Guess what? No "pop" !!  Hey this is cool. But wait...this amp is BRIDGED MONO into a 4 OHM cabinet. Supposedly, it should be putting out 1140 watts. I should be deaf from this. NOPE !!!!  It's quieter than my old JBL amp which only puts out 800 bridged mono. Here we go again! I re-configured the mono - stereo hookup on the amp,trying it both ways through the same cabinet. I determined that channel A, or channel B,are putting out the same watts as I get bridging it mono. So it now looks as though the "MONO-DUAL" switch on the back may be faulty, or something else inside may be wrong. Could this have happened at my "wonderful" repair shop?! Who knows. Let's hope the "replacement" works! At this point, I am not at all confident that this amp is going to get me through my shows. I surely don't want ot have to carry a second amp, just in case this one decides it doesn't want to work right. For all of you that own the XLS series... I hope mine is just a lemon and you have good luck with yours!

#13 Perne

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Posted 12 July 2006 - 01:36 PM

Hi:

I also just purchased a new XLS 402D on Ebay and installed it in my system, only to find that I have the problem with the loud thump on shutoff as well.  Please let me know if and how this problem has been resolved[I].  I am tech savy enough to install a new relay if need be myself if given the part and instructions; BUT I am concerned about having to return this to the deal since I bought this on Ebay.  Sending the new unit in for factory repair will be a huge pain in the *beep*.

#14 puck

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Posted 12 July 2006 - 08:54 PM

QUOTE(Perne @ Jul 12 2006, 03:36 PM)
Hi:

I also just purchased a new XLS 402D on Ebay and installed it in my system, only to find that I have the problem with the loud thump on shutoff as well.  Please let me know if and how this problem has been resolved[I].  I am tech savy enough to install a new relay if need be myself if given the part and instructions; BUT I am concerned about having to return this to the deal since I bought this on Ebay.  Sending the new unit in for factory repair will be a huge pain in the *beep*.
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I just got a NEW 402D, through my dealer,in cooperation with Mr. David Glass from CROWN. I just tried it out. Here's what it is doing. If I power down, with the gain up in the 9 o'clock position, I get the thump. If I turn the gain all the way OFF, or down, I am not getting any thump at all. My previous problematic unit was giving me the thump no matter where the gain was. Up,down, it was always thumping. This NEW unit seems to be ok so far. I haven't had a chance to really push some signal through it yet. I guess that will be the test.If you have concerns about your unit, don't hesitate to call Mr. Glass and talk with him. He is very helpful! You could also check on Crown's main website for a service center near you. That may be an option. If you do take it to a service center, be sure to print out this entire dialog and show it to them. The more information that they have about the problem, the easier it will be for them to diagnose the problem. It kind of appears that there may be some kind of issue with either the design of this amp, or the internal components. I'll post any more "findings" on this new unit as soon as I put it through a "real world" test this weekend.

#15 johnnybon

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Posted 13 July 2006 - 09:10 AM

QUOTE(puck @ Jul 12 2006, 09:54 PM)
QUOTE(Perne @ Jul 12 2006, 03:36 PM)
Hi:

I also just purchased a new XLS 402D on Ebay and installed it in my system, only to find that I have the problem with the loud thump on shutoff as well.  Please let me know if and how this problem has been resolved[I].  I am tech savy enough to install a new relay if need be myself if given the part and instructions; BUT I am concerned about having to return this to the deal since I bought this on Ebay.  Sending the new unit in for factory repair will be a huge pain in the *beep*.
View Post

I just got a NEW 402D, through my dealer,in cooperation with Mr. David Glass from CROWN. I just tried it out. Here's what it is doing. If I power down, with the gain up in the 9 o'clock position, I get the thump. If I turn the gain all the way OFF, or down, I am not getting any thump at all. My previous problematic unit was giving me the thump no matter where the gain was. Up,down, it was always thumping. This NEW unit seems to be ok so far. I haven't had a chance to really push some signal through it yet. I guess that will be the test.If you have concerns about your unit, don't hesitate to call Mr. Glass and talk with him. He is very helpful! You could also check on Crown's main website for a service center near you. That may be an option. If you do take it to a service center, be sure to print out this entire dialog and show it to them. The more information that they have about the problem, the easier it will be for them to diagnose the problem. It kind of appears that there may be some kind of issue with either the design of this amp, or the internal components. I'll post any more "findings" on this new unit as soon as I put it through a "real world" test this weekend.
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Wow this really worries me as I have been talking to crown support and they have told me that this problem was limited to only the first couple of hundred amps that were shipped. When I turn down my gains there is no thump but with the gains turned up I do get a thump. I'm running 3 402D's with one 402B in my home theater. The 402B does not have this problem at all as I can shut  it off with the gains turned up with no thump. Can someone at Crown please let me know if this problem can be fixed (Turning off the amp with the gains turned up and not getting a thud in the speakers) or is it just the way it is. I don't mine sending out the 402D's for repair/replacement if it indeed can be fixed.