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CE2000 and XLS402


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#1 Space

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Posted 10 December 2005 - 01:19 PM

Seems to be alot of knowledge on this board!! Glad to meet you'all!

Well, I'm in charge of getting our PA running to its fullest potential huh.gif . I know what I have, now I just want to know the best way to hook everything up.

Amps:
CE2000
XLS 402

Speakers:
2 x Warfedale LIX 12 rated at 250w RMS each
2 x Yamaha SE12 rated at 125w RMS each
2 x Warfedale LIX 15SB Subs rated at 600w RMS each.

Ok, the first thing I tried was this:
Wired the SE12's in stereo to the XLS 402 at 8 ohms. Seemed to work great.
Then, reading (incorrectly I NOW know  blink.gif  ) the instructions for the Warfedales, the subs had a passive crossover so they could be connected to the tops. I wired each top to the sub, then wired the subs parallel. What I thought was creating 1700w 4ohm load to a bridged mono CE2000. What I now know is.. that I was wiring a 1200w 2 ohm load to the amp. Needless to say, I blew the subs.  sad.gif  Luckily for me, they subs were less than a year old, and the manfacturer didn't even ask me what happened and they sent me out some replacements free of charge. (YAY!  biggrin.gif )

So.. after doing some reading.. upon replacing the drivers in the cabs, I removed the crossovers and wired the speakers directly. I picked up a DBX Drive Rack PA to use for an active crossover and limiter/compressor. Now on to the speakers.. what I thought would be the best way is this. I have 2 LIX12's wired 500w RMS 4 ohms to channel 1 of the XLS402. I have the 2 SE12's wired 250w RMS 4 ohms to channel 2 of the XLS402. And finally I have the subs running stereo 600w 4 ohms on the CE2000.

Does this seem like the best way to wire the system? Thanks SO much in advance!

#2 Space

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Posted 10 December 2005 - 01:22 PM

Also to piggyback ..

When I was setting up the Drive Rack PA, apparently it has those two amps already in its programming. It also suggested what setting to have the knob at on the amps in reference to gain structure.
How important is that to match? I don't feel like I can get enough gain before the amp to get it all loud enough.

Thanks again!!

#3 guyofsound

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Posted 11 December 2005 - 03:24 PM

first thing the settings on the drive rack p.a. are only references that only apply if you are using the speakers that they programed in it. i wouldn't recomend using it with wizard because they don't have wharfedales in it. those speaker sound grat thou. the way i would wire the system would be the ce 2000 on the subs in stereo and the 12s in stereo on the xls 402. i personally don't like the fact that they tell you to turn the amp half up and do adjustments because, most people using something like this would be in a bar band and it is always being moved around, buttons get bumped where if you do they adjustments with the volumes on full up that is the highest it will go if you are clipping the amps you can turn it down rather than having to remember where the amp was set when you set up the system. but any way the crosover has signal level adjustments on the back + 4 and - 10. on your system you should probably use the -10 setting, crossover frequencys for 15 subs i always try 150 htz (with the butterworth filter set to 24 db so the frequencies don't overlap) to start and go lower if it sounds like to much is coming out of the subs. the tops you would run at the same frequency and buttterwoth filter. and make your volume adjustments according to how you want it to sound. remember you really can't make a band system sound its best without having a band playing through it when you are making the adjustments. so my recomedation is to have the band play  while you adjust it if possible. reason being a cd being played thru the system would already be mixed and compressed and isn't going to sound the same as a band. i start with vocals first and try to see how loud the ban is behind the vocalist. adjust the vocal loud enough to hear him over the band. then work the kick in so you want to make the band play like your practicing and do these adjustments asuming you have your monitors alset to where you would have them to hear on stage. working the band in after that should be nice and easy after you have levels on the vocals and the kick. just make sure you aren't clipping the amps (otherwise you will be fixing the speaker alot) and you will be in business. there are also eqs in the drive rack so you can shape the system them way you want. also the compressor and limting will help keep the system wher eyou want and not let it clip when you turn up from there.

these are just suggestions everyone does things diffferently and you will find your own way but you can try anything you want.

#4 Space

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Posted 12 December 2005 - 09:24 PM

QUOTE(guyofsound @ Dec 11 2005, 04:24 PM)
first thing the settings on the drive rack p.a. are only references that only apply if you are using the speakers that they programed in it. i wouldn't recomend using it with wizard because they don't have wharfedales in it. those speaker sound grat thou. the way i would wire the system would be the ce 2000 on the subs in stereo and the 12s in stereo on the xls 402. i personally don't like the fact that they tell you to turn the amp half up and do adjustments because, most people using something like this would be in a bar band and it is always being moved around, buttons get bumped where if you do they adjustments with the volumes on full up that is the highest it will go if you are clipping the amps you can turn it down rather than having to remember where the amp was set when you set up the system. but any way the crosover has signal level adjustments on the back + 4 and - 10. on your system you should probably use the -10 setting, crossover frequencys for 15 subs i always try 150 htz (with the butterworth filter set to 24 db so the frequencies don't overlap) to start and go lower if it sounds like to much is coming out of the subs. the tops you would run at the same frequency and buttterwoth filter. and make your volume adjustments according to how you want it to sound. remember you really can't make a band system sound its best without having a band playing through it when you are making the adjustments. so my recomedation is to have the band play  while you adjust it if possible. reason being a cd being played thru the system would already be mixed and compressed and isn't going to sound the same as a band. i start with vocals first and try to see how loud the ban is behind the vocalist. adjust the vocal loud enough to hear him over the band. then work the kick in so you want to make the band play like your practicing and do these adjustments asuming you have your monitors alset to where you would have them to hear on stage. working the band in after that should be nice and easy after you have levels on the vocals and the kick. just make sure you aren't clipping the amps (otherwise you will be fixing the speaker alot) and you will be in business. there are also eqs in the drive rack so you can shape the system them way you want. also the compressor and limting will help keep the system wher eyou want and not let it clip when you turn up from there.

these are just suggestions everyone does things diffferently and you will find your own way but you can try anything you want.
View Post



Thanks for taking the time to explain those things. As for your recommendation on the speakers/amps.. which speakers were you referring to? I have two sets of 12's.

Currently I have the subs together out channel two on the SE, and the LIX12's together out channel one. I have the SE12's stereo on the XLS 402. How does that sound?

#5 Space

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Posted 15 December 2005 - 03:29 PM

Is my question too wordy??  ohmy.gif

#6 DGlass

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Posted 15 December 2005 - 04:44 PM

Space,
Please be patient. "guyofsound" is not a forum moderator nor a Crown employee and not every subscriber to the forum monitors the forum postings everyday.
If you would like to contact him directly you can use the forum’s email service by double-clicking his name in the left column, next to his post, and select “Send an Email”. Your and his Email address will be kept hidden from each other.

#7 Space

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Posted 15 December 2005 - 05:17 PM

I'm sorry if I sounded like I was copping an attitude.. I wasn't really. I just know that YOU are the resident pro and I was actually hoping/trying to get your attention.  cool.gif

Thank you

#8 Bud Bolf

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Posted 16 December 2005 - 09:31 AM

Hi Space,
You did not mention what you are using for a Mixer.
Most Mixers today put out at the +4 rating. This is also the rating of most Pro Equipment and you should also have your DriveRack set at the +4.
The Crown Amps will be set at 1.4 sensitivity setting, which also works
well with the +4 setting. You will see this in the DriveRack and Crown Manuals.

I think that if you set your Low Pass Filter at 150Hz you will Hear way too much of the upper Frequency's creeping into your Subs. You will hear Vocals and instruments that you really do not want in your Subs.
The highest I would go is to 100Hz and in fact I crossover my Subs Low Pass Filter at 90Hz with -24dB Linkwitz Riley. The Filter is up to you, try the Linkwitz Riley and then the Butterworth and see which you like best with your cabs.

The High Pass Filter is the Filter in the 40 to 50Hz range and should be set per your Sub Cabs Specifications.
Also at -24dB and with whichever Filter you want to use, LR or Butterworth.
Do not be afraid to experiment a bit to see what you like.
But watch the High Pass filter setting, if you set it too low
you can harm your Sub speakers.

I have a Mackie 24/4 VLZ Pro Mixer into a DriveRack PA and then into a Crown CE2000 (tops) and a CE4000 (subs), so I know from experience and playing around with the DriveRackPA over the last couple of years.

I do not use the Compressor but do use the Limiters.
I do agree that your Subs should be powered by the CE2000.

  In regard to your 12" Yamaha's and the Warfedale LXI 12" cabs what are you intentions with them?
I ask because I assumed speaker placement once before, and it bit me,
when I discovered my Assumption was wrong.

That's as far as I want to go with advice at this point, until I hear more about your
setup.

Later,
    Bud

PS. I have no affiliation with Crown, just a fellow Live Sound Enthusiast.

#9 Space

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Posted 16 December 2005 - 04:36 PM

QUOTE(Bud Bolf @ Dec 16 2005, 10:31 AM)
Hi Space,
You did not mention what you are using for a Mixer.
Most Mixers today put out at the +4 rating. This is also the rating of most Pro Equipment and you should also have your DriveRack set at the +4.
The Crown Amps will be set at 1.4 sensitivity setting, which also works
well with the +4 setting. You will see this in the DriveRack and Crown Manuals.

I think that if you set your Low Pass Filter at 150Hz you will Hear way too much of the upper Frequency's creeping into your Subs. You will hear Vocals and instruments that you really do not want in your Subs.
The highest I would go is to 100Hz and in fact I crossover my Subs Low Pass Filter at 90Hz with -24dB Linkwitz Riley. The Filter is up to you, try the Linkwitz Riley and then the Butterworth and see which you like best with your cabs.

The High Pass Filter is the Filter in the 40 to 50Hz range and should be set per your Sub Cabs Specifications.
Also at -24dB and with whichever Filter you want to use, LR or Butterworth.
Do not be afraid to experiment a bit to see what you like.
But watch the High Pass filter setting, if you set it too low
you can harm your Sub speakers.

I have a Mackie 24/4 VLZ Pro Mixer into a DriveRack PA and then into a Crown CE2000 (tops) and a CE4000 (subs), so I know from experience and playing around with the DriveRackPA over the last couple of years.

I do not use the Compressor but do use the Limiters.
I do agree that your Subs should be powered by the CE2000.

  In regard to your 12" Yamaha's and the Warfedale LXI 12" cabs what are you intentions with them?
I ask because I assumed speaker placement once before, and it bit me,
when I discovered my Assumption was wrong.

That's as far as I want to go with advice at this point, until I hear more about your
setup.

Later,
    Bud

PS. I have no affiliation with Crown, just a fellow Live Sound Enthusiast.
View Post


Hi Bud, thanks for taking the time to respond.

For now my mixer is a *cough* Behringer UB1204FX *cough* but when I can get my next wave of $$ to spend I'll be looking to upgrade. For now it does have what I need though. The system now has 4 vocals, bass, and keys going through it.

I'll do just what you said about the freq to crossover at.

Right now I have the 12" Warfs on sub poles ontop the Warf subs and I have the Yamaha 12" on the floor for monitors.
I currently have it setup with the Yamaha's running stereo off the 402, and the Warf 12's parallel off channel one of the CE2000, and the subs parallel off channel 2. I am using BOTH the compressor and the limiter on the DRPA.

Thanks again for taking the time to share!!

Ron

#10 Bud Bolf

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Posted 16 December 2005 - 07:24 PM

Hi Space,
  OK some changes could be made.
Let's start with the Basics.
There is a kinda rule of thumb that to properly power your Speakers
you take the RMS / Continuous rating and multiply it by 1.5 to 2x
Another way is to double the RMS /Continuous rating and then multiply that by 0.8 and 1.25 for the power needed.
There is even another that you can find on this website that states:
http://www.crownaudio.com/amp_htm/amp_info..._much_power.htm
That if properly limited, you should have an amplifier that can reach to
the actual "Peak" of the Speakers.
The Crown article goes on to say:

  "If you are mainly doing light dance music or voice, we recommend that the amplifier power be 1.6 times the Continuous Power (RMS) rating per channel. If you are doing heavy metal/grunge, try 2.5 times the Continuous (RMS) Power rating per channel. The amplifier power must be rated for the impedance of the loudspeaker (2, 4, 8 or 16 ohms)."

Now let's take the first formula and apply it to your Speakers.

1) The Wharfdale LXI12 is rated at 250 "watts RMS." (wrms)
    The 1.5x is 375wrms / the 2x is easy, it's double at 500wrms.
     So your Power Amp should fall somewhere in this range of 375 to 500wrms
     at 8 ohms (if per Channel or one amp Bridged at 8 ohms)
     If you paralleled these 2 speaker cabs to get to 4ohms, the power would
      now be spread over the 2 speaker Cabs, and you would double the    
      numbers above. So you would want 750wrms to 1000wrms.
      This would be if on a Bridged amp or per Channel at 4ohms.

2) The Wharfdale LXI 15SB Sub is rated at 600 watts RMS.
     Taking info from above this means you need:
     1.5x at 900wrms to 2x at 1200wrms at 4ohms per channel or Bridged.
     It is not a good idea to parallel two 8ohm cabs to get to 2ohms.
     Even though some amps will give a 2ohm spec, it is usually shied away from  
     but you still have to do what you have to do.

3)  The Yamaha speaker are rated at 125 watts RMS and I'm sure by now you can
      do the math.

So in summary you have some Power issues for sure.

Right now you are powering your Subs with one side of a CE2000, you are paralleling the cabs to 2 ohms.
The CE2000 puts out 975wrms at 2ohms.
Split between 2 cabs that's 437.5wrms per cab.
This is not even at the 600wrms (continuous) power rating that the speakers have.
If you used the CE2000 just for the Subs, then they would at least
get 660wrms at 4ohms each per channel.
Subs more than any other cabs Crave and want Power!
Due to the Low Frequencies that they reproduce.

In a more perfect world:
  I would advise getting a CE4000 (or any amp) that is rated at 1200wrms per channel at 4ohms, and using that for your Subs. One Sub per channel.
You could then use the CE2000 for the Wharfdales LXI 12's one Cab per channel.
Which gives you 400 wrms at 8ohms, and you are at least at 1.5x the rated RMS power for these cabs.
Then the remaining XLS402 for the Yamaha's for Monitors,
The XLS402 is perfect at 260wrms per channel at 8ohms and is at 2x the rated RMS for these cabs.

Almost any way you slice it, you need another Power Amp!
Your Scenario leaves you really underpowered for the Subs.

With that said, in your current config, I would run the Behringer Outputs
(L&R) to the DriveRack Inputs and then one XLR cable from the Mono out at the Lows of the DriveRack to the CE2000 Channel that has the Wharfdale Subs on it.
Then another XLR cable from the Highs Mono out at the DriveRack to the CE2000 that has the Wharfdale LXI 12's on it.
You will have a 2x2 Configuration at the Drive Rack.
Set your Crossover Points etc.. on the Drive Rack, and use the Wizard.

The XLS402 that is taking care of your Monitors, should be run from
your Mixer.
Which you probably already are but to go over.
You can do this by using Aux #1 and Y the XLS402 inputs.
You then adjust Aux 1 per channel and it adjusts both Monitors.
If you could use 2 Aux sends, then each Monitor could be adjusted independently.
If you used Alt 3&4 you could adjust the Alt 3&4 faders per Monitor but
there is no adjustment per channel.
Alt 3&4 is really the overall Mix like the Main Faders but you can Pan to one or the other or both..
Usually you put an EQ in line with your Monitor Power Amp send to handle feedback via bad Freq's.
It's called ringing out your Monitors.

Because you are underpowered and even if your not, I can not stress
enough for you to go to the back of the DriveRack manual and use it to set your "Gain Structure" correct.
You do not want to overdrive your Inputs at you Power Amps
and have them CLIP! Or you will very quickly harm your Speakers.

You have room to grow that's for sure. I'd get another Power Amp
before another Mixer!
But a larger Mixer with more Aux Sends will work better for your Monitors!
There is a saying and it goes "Cry once, Buy once" meaning that you
may have to stretch your budget and spend more money but in the long run
you'll be much happier that you did.
It's cheaper in the long run to buy the right piece of equipment at the start than money over and over until you get there and find it actually cost you more going that route.

Good Luck Space, I hope that I helped you on your Quest!
     Take Care,
         Bud

#11 Space

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Posted 17 December 2005 - 09:33 AM

QUOTE(Bud Bolf @ Dec 16 2005, 08:24 PM)
Hi Space,
  OK some changes could be made.
Let's start with the Basics.
There is a kinda rule of thumb that to properly power your Speakers
you take the RMS / Continuous rating and multiply it by 1.5 to 2x
Another way is to double the RMS /Continuous rating and then multiply that by 0.8 and 1.25 for the power needed.
There is even another that you can find on this website that states:
http://www.crownaudio.com/amp_htm/amp_info..._much_power.htm
That if properly limited, you should have an amplifier that can reach to
the actual "Peak" of the Speakers.
The Crown article goes on to say:

  "If you are mainly doing light dance music or voice, we recommend that the amplifier power be 1.6 times the Continuous Power (RMS) rating per channel. If you are doing heavy metal/grunge, try 2.5 times the Continuous (RMS) Power rating per channel. The amplifier power must be rated for the impedance of the loudspeaker (2, 4, 8 or 16 ohms)."

Now let's take the first formula and apply it to your Speakers.

1) The Wharfdale LXI12 is rated at 250 "watts RMS." (wrms)
    The 1.5x is 375wrms / the 2x is easy, it's double at 500wrms.
     So your Power Amp should fall somewhere in this range of 375 to 500wrms
     at 8 ohms (if per Channel or one amp Bridged at 8 ohms)
     If you paralleled these 2 speaker cabs to get to 4ohms, the power would
      now be spread over the 2 speaker Cabs, and you would double the   
      numbers above. So you would want 750wrms to 1000wrms.
      This would be if on a Bridged amp or per Channel at 4ohms.

2) The Wharfdale LXI 15SB Sub is rated at 600 watts RMS.
     Taking info from above this means you need:
     1.5x at 900wrms to 2x at 1200wrms at 4ohms per channel or Bridged.
     It is not a good idea to parallel two 8ohm cabs to get to 2ohms.
     Even though some amps will give a 2ohm spec, it is usually shied away from 
     but you still have to do what you have to do.

3)  The Yamaha speaker are rated at 125 watts RMS and I'm sure by now you can
      do the math.

So in summary you have some Power issues for sure.

Right now you are powering your Subs with one side of a CE2000, you are paralleling the cabs to 2 ohms.
The CE2000 puts out 975wrms at 2ohms.
Split between 2 cabs that's 437.5wrms per cab.
This is not even at the 600wrms (continuous) power rating that the speakers have.
If you used the CE2000 just for the Subs, then they would at least
get 660wrms at 4ohms each per channel.
Subs more than any other cabs Crave and want Power!
Due to the Low Frequencies that they reproduce.

In a more perfect world:
  I would advise getting a CE4000 (or any amp) that is rated at 1200wrms per channel at 4ohms, and using that for your Subs. One Sub per channel.
You could then use the CE2000 for the Wharfdales LXI 12's one Cab per channel.
Which gives you 400 wrms at 8ohms, and you are at least at 1.5x the rated RMS power for these cabs.
Then the remaining XLS402 for the Yamaha's for Monitors,
The XLS402 is perfect at 260wrms per channel at 8ohms and is at 2x the rated RMS for these cabs.

Almost any way you slice it, you need another Power Amp!
Your Scenario leaves you really underpowered for the Subs.

With that said, in your current config, I would run the Behringer Outputs
(L&R) to the DriveRack Inputs and then one XLR cable from the Mono out at the Lows of the DriveRack to the CE2000 Channel that has the Wharfdale Subs on it.
Then another XLR cable from the Highs Mono out at the DriveRack to the CE2000 that has the Wharfdale LXI 12's on it.
You will have a 2x2 Configuration at the Drive Rack.
Set your Crossover Points etc.. on the Drive Rack, and use the Wizard.

The XLS402 that is taking care of your Monitors, should be run from
your Mixer.
Which you probably already are but to go over.
You can do this by using Aux #1 and Y the XLS402 inputs.
You then adjust Aux 1 per channel and it adjusts both Monitors.
If you could use 2 Aux sends, then each Monitor could be adjusted independently.
If you used Alt 3&4 you could adjust the Alt 3&4 faders per Monitor but
there is no adjustment per channel.
Alt 3&4 is really the overall Mix like the Main Faders but you can Pan to one or the other or both..
Usually you put an EQ in line with your Monitor Power Amp send to handle feedback via bad Freq's.
It's called ringing out your Monitors.

Because you are underpowered and even if your not, I can not stress
enough for you to go to the back of the DriveRack manual and use it to set your "Gain Structure" correct.
You do not want to overdrive your Inputs at you Power Amps
and have them CLIP! Or you will very quickly harm your Speakers.

You have room to grow that's for sure. I'd get another Power Amp
before another Mixer!
But a larger Mixer with more Aux Sends will work better for your Monitors!
There is a saying and it goes "Cry once, Buy once" meaning that you
may have to stretch your budget and spend more money but in the long run
you'll be much happier that you did.
It's cheaper in the long run to buy the right piece of equipment at the start than money over and over until you get there and find it actually cost you more going that route.

Good Luck Space, I hope that I helped you on your Quest!
     Take Care,
         Bud
View Post


Bud I can't thank you enough for taking the time to go over all of that great information! I understand everything and it all made sense. I have to final questions for you if you don't mind. smile.gif

1) Why is 2ohms shyed away from if the manufactorer specs for it? Does it have a history of still producing problems?
2) Right now, I have the monitors running of the (High) in the Drive rack, and the mains off the (Mid) with them both crossed over roughly 170hz+. I'm doing this to be able to use the limiter/compressor thats in the Drive Rack.

I wil do just as you recommended and get the CE4000 (once I have the $$). Do you think I would be better off letting the subs sit there and wire the Warfe 12's up stereo to the CE2000 to get full power to those speakers?

Thanks again Bud!
Ron

#12 Bud Bolf

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Posted 17 December 2005 - 04:42 PM

Hi Ron,
  About the 2 ohms issue,
Maybe David or one of the Crown reps can answer that and chime in
here a bit, and at the same time either validate my statement or tell you
and I it's hogwash!
But, I have always heard that running at 2ohms at High levels is just asking
for trouble and has the ability to go to 0ohms. Which is not good.
As your speakers are performing, the voice coil's ohm rating actually changes
and fluctuates and each speaker has it's own characteristics, plus other factors come into play such as Wire Gauge, length etc...
You need to know your speakers and how they react or operate if you will and how stable they will stay in the safe range.
If you look at your speakers specs it will say that they are 8ohm or 4ohm speakers but it will also say exactly what the actual Ohms rating is, taken at a particular point or freq. and it is not 8 ohms or 4 ohms.
The 2 ohm value is given for the Power Amp but you need to know that your speakers will respect that or not.
I'll let Crown give an actual intelligent answer to this.

You really DO need to get your Monitors out of the DriveRack.
When you connect it to your Aux 1, you just have so much more control over the Monitors.
You can go to each Channel and put in exactly how much of that channel you want.
When you can run your monitors from let's say Aux 1 to the Power Amp's
Channel 1 and Aux 2 to the same Power amps Channel 2 and connect one monitor to Channel 1 and the other to Channel 2, you can now customize exactly what and who goes into each monitor.

As an example:
We use three Monitor's on stage for the 3 of us in the Band.
There's one in front of myself and another in front of the Guitar player these two are off Aux 1 and to the same Power Amp channel.
The 3rd Monitor is for our Drummer, off Aux 2 and into the other Power amp channel.
The Guitarist and myself put in what we want to hear in our Monitors.
I am looking into an IEM (in ear monitor) for myself, because I don't like sharing monitor mixes with the guitarist,
he wants more of his Keys and Guitar than I really want in mine, but that's another story LOL!
The Drummer's Monitor mix is totally different than ours.
He wants my bass, more Keys, plus a little more Vocals, including his vocal.
I can do this by going to Aux 2 (which is labeled for him) and on my
Bass Guitar channel, I turn up Aux 2 until he is happy.
I then turn up Aux 2 on the Keyboard channel until he's happy, then Vocals etc.. etc.. etc... get it?
I can go across all the channel's and through Aux 2 give him as much or little as he needs. He has his own Mix.
Then during the GIG if he needs more or less of something, all I
have to do is just tweak the Aux 2 for that channel.
Same for the Guitarist and myself via Aux 1.

That is the whole reason for Monitors, it is for YOU and not the Audience.
When I get my IEM, I can do the same for myself on Aux 1 and for the Guitarist on Aux 3. We will then have 3 independent Monitor mixes.
Due to your Mixer you really only have Aux 1 to feed your Monitors because Aux 2 is for your effects.
But you can do like myself and the Guitarist in my band, and you can adjust Aux 1 on each channel to add more or less of that channel in the Monitor mix. Do you want more Vocals on some channels, less on others, more Instrument's or less, whatever.
The way your using them now, reminds me of the old days when we did not have monitors, and we would put the PA more behind us so we could hear ourselves.
Thank God for the Good New Days! LOL

  You do not need the Limiter and Compressor on the Monitors,
look for a cheap (I know I said Buy once Cry once, but you need a lot. LOL)
dual 31band EQ, Behringer has one for under a hundred bucks or look on Ebay etc..
Then, from Aux 1 use a Y cable and plug into each Input at the EQ,
then go out of each 31 band EQ output, to each channel on the XLS402.
This way, though the feed to each EQ band is the same, you can now
individually EQ each Yamaha Monitor, Get it?

Depending on placement one Monitor may require more or less EQ.
Monitor placement is important, Shure Mic's SM58's like the Monitors behind the Mic stand pointed up. The Shure Beta 58's however like the Monitors off to the side (Left or Right) at about a 45 degree angle to the Mic.

You ask,
"I will do just as you recommended and get the CE4000 (once I have the $$). Do you think I would be better off letting the subs sit there and wire the Warfe 12's up stereo to the CE2000 to get full power to those speakers?"

I would wait and see what Crown says about the 2ohm load that I talked about at the beginning of this. However if the Crown rep sees no real big problem with it, then I would say try hooking it up like I mentioned before and see how it does. Really watch the amp for clipping though, because you may be tempted to push the Subs.
They are there and you know that they are under powered, but it should still add somewhat.
Watch those Amp Clip lights and as I said set your Gains correctly,
so at your highest / loudest segments you do not see that little red light.
Besides what do you have to lose.

  If you do not like it and the System seems starved, then yes just hook up the LXI12's per channel with the CE2000 and wait for the power for the Subs.
If you use just the LXI12's and the CE2000, then go from the
DriveRack High outs (L&R) to each Channel of the CE2000.
The Crossover will come up with just the Highs and still show 2x2.
The LXI12's alone have a Frequency response of 55Hz to 20kHz
I'd set the Crossover point at 60Hz -24dB with either LR or Butterworth filter.
The DriveRack will only offer one Crossover point because they are Stereo full range.

For your EQ at the DriveRack always use Stereo Linked, otherwise you will need to EQ each cab individually.

You also asked how important it is to set your Power Amp's Input attenuator knobs to the setting that the DRPA shows.
I think for my CE2000 it showed around 65% or between 2 to 3 o'clock position.
I would start there and adjust as needed, my CE2000 though, runs my
Top cabs right about where the DRPA stated it would.

If you have more questions, just ask away.
  Good Luck,
      Bud

#13 Space

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Posted 17 December 2005 - 06:54 PM

Bud, you're the man. Everything you stated makes sense. I didn't think about using the Aux 1 for the monitors (yea I know, my green is showing) smile.gif. I guess this is the first time where I have to run sound instead of just playing the music.

I believe you've answered all my questions ( thoroughly!) and know I feel I have a pretty good grasp on it. As you stated, I'll wait and see what's said on the 2ohm thing otherwise I'll pretty much do as you suggested step for step.

I can't thank you enough!! Lemme know if your band (or you) are in the Cincinnati area and I'll buy you a beer!

Ron

#14 Bud Bolf

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Posted 17 December 2005 - 09:19 PM

QUOTE(Space @ Dec 17 2005, 07:54 PM)
Bud, you're the man. Everything you stated makes sense. I didn't think about using the Aux 1 for the monitors (yea I know, my green is showing) smile.gif. I guess this is the first time where I have to run sound instead of just playing the music.

I believe you've answered all my questions ( thoroughly!) and know I feel I have a pretty good grasp on it. As you stated, I'll wait and see what's said on the 2ohm thing otherwise I'll pretty much do as you suggested step for step.

I can't thank you enough!! Lemme know if your band (or you) are in the Cincinnati area and I'll buy you a beer!

Ron
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Glad to help Ron. You could say, I've been there done that.
So it's good to help someone that's on the trip as well.

  As far as Cincinatti is concerned, well, I'm down here in Sunny South Florida.
West Palm Beach, to Ft. Lauderdale Beach area to be exact!
However the Company that I work for has our Corporate Offices located in Cleveland.
I have been there for Training before, so you never can tell.

Back at ya too, if your ever in my area down here.

You can also check out the DriveRack Forum for lot's of good info on tweaking
the DriveRack further.
Click here: http://www.driverack.com/drug/index.asp
Parametric EQ's on the Sub in the 80Hz range help bring out the Kick drum.
Other PEQ's in the upper range works good on Vocals etc etc...
So, theres much to do with the DriveRack when you get it going.

I also love that I can store a Room that we played at and then save it to a user pre-set and when we go back there, just pull it up and All my adjustments from the last Gig, is still saved and ready to go.
I usually name it as the Venue. That's it for now.

     Have a good one, we should not see a reply from a Crown rep till Monday.
   Adios Amigo,
         Bud

#15 Bud Bolf

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Posted 17 December 2005 - 09:40 PM

Hey Ron,
Another great place with Forums and Study Hall with ton's of good articles
on live sound is at ProSoundWeb.
Check it out:
http://srforums.prosoundweb.com/index.php/...00e6de8d8260711

Later,
Bud