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Xti2000 --> Xti4002 , worth the jump? or i-tech 4k ~ 6k


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#1 SQBubble

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Posted 01 May 2014 - 10:08 AM

Hello,

Im wondering if it is worth the switch, I use it for home use, powering 2 10" subwoofer rated 800rms each, strictly for sub-60/80hz use... movies mostly, sometime the xti2000 clips when the bass recording peaks... I was wondering if the Xti4002 would solve this problem, I figured its simply because the xti2000 might not have enough juice for my application, dunno if the extra ~400rms on the xti4002 would make a difference

So Im not sure if its worth it... or should I simply wait to find a good deal on some i-tech4k or 6k? since they have a whole different design and architecture (i think), might be lot easier and more futureproof for low frequency application?

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#2 dakos

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Posted 02 May 2014 - 12:04 AM

Can you post direct links to your subs exact model?

There could be a few reasons that the amp is clipping... First you need to figure out it's the XTi that's clipping and not some other device on the signal chain, what other audio devices do you have? Receiver? Mixer? Xover?

You could be clipping your amp due to poor room acoustics. Does your room have acoustical problems? Do you have your EQ up to push some frequencies? You can use an RTA app from the app store or google play and some pink noise generator and see if you have problems that make you need to push the subs that hard.

If it's indeed your amp that's clipping and your room isn't eating all that SPL, then you need bigger speakers/amps to cope with the problem. What you'll get when switching to XTi4002 are better limiters that you can actually configure to work with subs, and a bit more power. That can never be a bad thing :) but I don't know if that will solve your problem. You might end up just pushing the subs further and going into clipping again.

To properly power subs you need both a powerful amp and a few types of limiters, the more advanced the limiters the more complex the configuration is and the more "on the edge" we let yourself walk when we use them. The itech has those limiters built in and enough power for your subs, it's undoubtedly a better choice but at a higher price then the XTi series. The itech HD series even has one more limiter type so it's even better for subs but also at a higher price point.
Its all about the sweet spot between how much $$$ you want to spend and what gear you want...

Did you setup a HPF on the -3dB of those subs to assist them and your amp in coping with those Low Frequency content?
Avi

#3 SQBubble

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Posted 02 May 2014 - 12:50 AM

The sub is this : http://web.archive.o...?showtopic=1013

The chain is simple and as follow:
computer sound card --> art cleanbox --> xti2000 --> subs
i did EQ some frequencies, raised a couple dbs in the 30hz region

Although the subs are each in theyre own sealed enclosure, which does make it lot more ineffecient... i used to run them in a car, ported, with 2000wrms, and they were happy with full of life... so im also thinking of making an enclosure that would result in a much more efficient output as well...

The clipping i was referring to happens really briefly through some movies with some peaks in the low frequencies... movies like transformers, avengers, ironman, basically all LFE heavy movies ... using to much EQ can greatly provoke that right?
it doesnt occurs with music...

What exactly is the 20hz-20khz output rms of the xti4002? i remember long time ago a thread went about that since the power rating is rated @ 1khz only  ...

thx

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-- Crown XTi2000 --
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#4 dakos

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Posted 02 May 2014 - 03:49 AM

My guess is that you're pushing your box using the 30Hz EQ settings to try and make it do what it's not supposed to. Could you give me the dimensions of the box you build those subs and links to the subs Web pages so I may calculate what's their -3dB point. This way we can setup a HPF to remove the inaudible program and not overload your amp nor overdrive the sub.

I believe this is the thread you're talking about concerning the XTi 4002 20-20k specs:
http://www.crownaudi...topic=2088&st=0
I suggest you read it from start to finish.
Avi

#5 joust

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Posted 02 May 2014 - 11:00 AM

My two cents worth :
Are you sure that the ART is operating at +4dBu?
The XTi2000 is capable of delivering 450W into 8 ohms and 800W into 4 ohms, per channel, or 1600W into 8 ohms and 2000W into 4 ohms Bridged mono. That's a lot of power for a 'small' room!
The XTI frequency response is quite flat from 20-20KHz. Having an XTi with DSP capabilities, you can tailor your sound using the built-in EQ, to pass those ELF. (Which frequencies are clipping?) I don't recommend the use of the SUBSYNTH, in this application.
Also, 450W (into 8 ohms) in a home setting is quite loud! I'm starting to believe that the clipping is coming before the amplifier.

Alain

#6 SQBubble

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Posted 02 May 2014 - 09:16 PM

View Postdakos, on 02 May 2014 - 03:49 AM, said:

My guess is that you're pushing your box using the 30Hz EQ settings to try and make it do what it's not supposed to. Could you give me the dimensions of the box you build those subs and links to the subs Web pages so I may calculate what's their -3dB point. This way we can setup a HPF to remove the inaudible program and not overload your amp nor overdrive the sub.

I believe this is the thread you're talking about concerning the XTi 4002 20-20k specs:
http://www.crownaudi...topic=2088&st=0
I suggest you read it from start to finish.
Avi

Ya the box probably has lot to do with the issue... i remember it being 0.9cu.ft NET
the full specs & T/S parameter is this:
Posted Image

thx for the link, useful thread!!

View Postjoust, on 02 May 2014 - 11:00 AM, said:

My two cents worth :
Are you sure that the ART is operating at +4dBu?
The XTi2000 is capable of delivering 450W into 8 ohms and 800W into 4 ohms, per channel, or 1600W into 8 ohms and 2000W into 4 ohms Bridged mono. That's a lot of power for a 'small' room!
The XTI frequency response is quite flat from 20-20KHz. Having an XTi with DSP capabilities, you can tailor your sound using the built-in EQ, to pass those ELF. (Which frequencies are clipping?) I don't recommend the use of the SUBSYNTH, in this application.
Also, 450W (into 8 ohms) in a home setting is quite loud! I'm starting to believe that the clipping is coming before the amplifier.

Alain

You know, you actually made me think of something.... my subs are dual 4ohm and are wired in parralel which results in a ~2ohm final load.... I'm starting to think that maybe at lower frequency the impendance gets even lower and stresses the xti further? hmmm
Dont get me wrong the Xti2000 is one of the audio equipment that I cant seem to part with, I really love it... amazingly versatile, with xovers, eqs, good power output..all-in-one, super user friendly.. almost 7years that I have it and its still kicking..seriously where else can you get all of these feature in a easy to carry-put it anywhere 19” x 3.5" x 12.25” metal box? lol

Was powering an 18" ported sub prior the 10" and the output was stunning! changed because of lack of space... I think I will re-build a new and much better enclosure and see what happens first.

-- X-fi Elite--

-- B&W 685 Bookshelves --
-- TC Sound TC-10OEM --

-- Rega Cursa3 --

-- Rega Exon3 Monoblock (x2) --
-- Crown XTi2000 --
-- Art Cleanbox --


#7 dakos

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Posted 03 May 2014 - 03:35 AM

View Postjoust, on 02 May 2014 - 11:00 AM, said:

That's a lot of power for a 'small' room!
Alain, did you notice it's car audio driver? Have you seen this drivers sensitivity? It's much lower then what we're used to. At 84dB/1W/1M it's about 15dB less.

It's very important how you configured the speakers impedance so make sure how they are connected and let me know...
Avi

#8 joust

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Posted 07 May 2014 - 10:57 AM

I thought about it! It appears that a lot of car equipment is now being channeled towards 'professional' and consumer sound. The power amps installed in portable [JBL] speakers appear to be direct descendants from car equipment : The DC power supply is 48V (4 x 12V!!).
But what is quite obvious is the 4 ohms speakers, in parallel (now two ohms!), set in Bridge mode (now it's one ohm per side!!!)... This is very harsh on the power system! And, I concur : the SPL level (@ 83dB @ 1m) is too low!
I would also suggest to verify the ohmage of the boxes; If they are rated at 2 ohms, I would suggest to reconfigure the 4 ohms drivers in series! Then instead of 2 ohms, you would be configured for 8 ohms, possibly more manageable.

Alain