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Binding Post question


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#1 Bud Bolf

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Posted 09 January 2006 - 08:34 PM

Howdy,
I have a question in regard to the Binding Posts on my CE and XS amps.
When using the Binding Posts with a Fork crimp connector, what is the center
stud size of the Binding Post?
I can order a Crimp connector with a fork that accomidates a stud size
of #6 , #8 or #10 and a 10 to 12ga wire.
  I could do trial and error, but thought why not ask.
Thanks,
     Bud

#2 DGlass

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Posted 10 January 2006 - 09:24 AM

Over the last couple of years we have been switching over to new touchless Binding Posts that are designed to meet the newer EU ratings for Europe. These newer binding post have no area were you can touch metal so there is no place to put a spade lug anymore. They accept bare wire and when the end caps are removed a Bannana Plug.

Currently only the Binding Posts on the XLS and the older series amps like the MAs can use spade lugs. They need at least a #10 lug size spade.

#3 Bud Bolf

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Posted 10 January 2006 - 10:08 PM

QUOTE(DGlass @ Jan 10 2006, 10:24 AM)
Over the last couple of years we have been switching over to new touchless Binding Posts that are designed to meet the newer EU ratings for Europe. These newer binding post have no area were you can touch metal so there is no place to put a spade lug anymore. They accept bare wire and when the end caps are removed a Bannana Plug.

Currently only the Binding Posts on the XLS and the older series amps like the MAs can use spade lugs. They need at least a #10 lug size spade.
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Thanks David,
  I actually picked up some Yellow Crimp fork / spade lug connectors
from Home Depot that accept 10 to 12ga wire.
When I unscrew the Binding posts and Insert these into them,
then tighten the Binding posts back down onto them,
all works fine and the Speakers are working.
Both my CE4000 and XS900's.
However when I unscrewed the binding posts and pulled
the fork/lug crimp out, I noticed that the forks are bent open a bit.
So I know that the distance between the forks is not enough.
If the center stud is a #10 then that explains why the forks are being spread open.
It is catching metal to metal though, somewhere.

  I saw a pic else-where, where a Amp rack was all hard wired with the Yellow shielded crimps,
(all QSC amps though) it looked like a very neat wiring job.
Where "neat" means very organised and not "neat" like Cool.
Though it did look Cool too, LOL you know what I mean!

I decided to rewire my amp rack as well, and I did, and ALL
connections work fine, but I'd like the crimps to fit better.
I'll look for some forks that fit a #10 stud / screw.

As you said above, "They accept bare wire and when the end caps are removed a Banana Plug."
Mine never came with end caps.
Does this mean that the 5 way Binding posts are now just 2 way Binding Posts?
Do I have some older "US of A" Binding posts?
If not then I should not be able to do what I am doing, how is that?
Thank's again,
       Bud

#4 DGlass

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Posted 12 January 2006 - 01:17 PM

As I said over the last couple of years we have been switching over to the newer EU style Binding Post. Depending on the model, when you purchased them and the amount of stock the dealer had before we made the change to a model you may have an amplifier with the original 5-way binding posts. Sorry we do not have a date or serial numbers listing available for when these changes were made, by model, as they were running production changes. dry.gif

As noted by most manufactures in their product literature as well as ours: "Specifications subject to change without prior notice" I am told that in the next publication of manuals that we do the mention of 5-way and spade lugs will be removed from the amplifiers changed. If you can put a spade lug on the center shaft of the Binding Post than you have the original 5-way binding posts. End caps will only be found in the newer Binding Posts. This doesn't make the amp any better or worse it just means it is meeting the current regulatory standards. These regulatory requirements state that there shall be no open metal contacts that can be touched by a person. Because of this the use of spade lugs with Binding Post is almost impossible. In commercial series amplifiers, were spade lugs are used almost exclusively, we ship a metal cover plate to cover the output barrier strip. smile.gif

#5 Bud Bolf

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Posted 12 January 2006 - 05:10 PM

Hi David,
Thanks again for the reply, I really appreciate it.
Yes I thankfully must have the older style 5 Way Binding Posts.
Not to beat this to death (it's only Binding posts) I do have a
follow up question.
I know that the Binding Post's are attached to the amp by way of an  
optional output panel, "CEAS2 5 way Binding Posts."
For your American customers can the Amps still
be "Special Ordered" with this option,
or can we still purchase the CEAS2 etc..  as an output  
option for an American amp?
I'm all for helping out the European market and even understand the
special setups that Crown and other Manufacturers need to perform for euro Amplifier sales,
but does it have to be at the cost of what the America's
have been used to for so many years?
Can't we have our cake and eat it too.

Myself (just my opinion) I think that the Spade Lugs are the best option for Hardwiring an Amp rack.
Especially if you have to rewire quickly to make any changes.
The loose wires start to become a mess (in and out) and forget Bananas
for a long term solid connection. Spade lugs are the cats pajamas!
I'll await your thoughts on this.

  Thanks again,
        Bud

#6 DGlass

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Posted 13 January 2006 - 05:04 PM

Unless you can find some old stock units someplace the CEAS2 is what is used in manufacturing as well as what is sold seperately. So it has been changed over as a part to the touch less binding posts as well.

#7 DGlass

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Posted 16 January 2006 - 09:14 AM

There is another option. Any new amps you order you can order them as a  CE1000CAS1 or a CE2000CAS1 instead of an AS2 model. These amps come with the CAES1 output module that is an output barrier screw strip. The CAES1 module can also be ordered from you dealer as a sales item and can be installed on any of the CE amplifiers that have a removable panel, on the back, were it would be placed. It can also be used to replace the new style CAES2 Binding Post, if you so desire, on the amps you already have. smile.gif

#8 DGlass

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Posted 16 January 2006 - 11:31 AM

Bud,

I looked up our manufacturing data sheet and found the model of the spade lugs we use with the Barrier (Screw) Terminal Strips. They are a Thomas & Betts TV10-10LF. We have found that some manufactures make their spade lugs a little wider and this minute extra amount of width will not allow them to fit on some Barrier (Screw) Terminal strips.
I checked the T&B spade lugs against the older 5-way Binding Posts and they have the same issue of needing to be spread out just a little bit to fit as the other manufactures of #10 spade lugs.

#9 Bud Bolf

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Posted 16 January 2006 - 01:58 PM

QUOTE(DGlass @ Jan 16 2006, 12:31 PM)
Bud,

I looked up our manufacturing data sheet and found the model of the spade lugs we use with the Barrier (Screw) Terminal Strips. They are a Thomas & Betts TV10-10LF. We have found that some manufactures make their spade lugs a little wider and this minute extra amount of width will not allow them to fit on some Barrier (Screw) Terminal strips.
I checked the T&B spade lugs against the older 5-way Binding Posts and they have the same issue of needing to be spread out just a little bit to fit as the other manufactures of #10 spade lugs.
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Thanks for the update David. I wrote down the Info into my Manuals.