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Upgrading to crown amps, help with choosing for my setup


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#16 greatzero

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Posted 02 March 2014 - 07:04 PM

This is for 932LA-1 and Bi-amp, but i own 932LA a run them in passive..

#17 greatzero

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Posted 02 March 2014 - 07:24 PM

how to post an image?

#18 dakos

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Posted 03 March 2014 - 12:08 AM

You post links to pictures, so you go to your favorite image to url sites such as tinypic.com or others, no need to even register.

Since all we are looking after is a good starting point, it doesn't matter that it's biamped, the amp gains are considered equal so unless the EQ is very near the xover point then you can still use the data as your starting point.
Avi

#19 greatzero

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Posted 03 March 2014 - 07:51 AM

In this topic: http://forums.prosou......0   it's is said that there shouldn't be any difference between VRX932 and VRX932-1 as log as they are used in passive mode. I have troubles finding tunings table for VRX932 run in passive. What i found is this chart:

Posted Image

Once used EQ parameters from the chart above I obtain this EQ curve (there is a HP filter added as I am using SRX728S):
Posted Image


Compared to this curve (passive stereo preset), designated for 3VRX932-1 speakers and Crown XTI2 amp:
Posted Image

from this comparison I assume, that even in passive it is not good to use EQ print of 932-1 for 932.

#20 dakos

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Posted 03 March 2014 - 10:49 AM

You might have a valid point here, if I were you I would start a thread on PSW lab lounge, I know a few people there have made there own presets for some JBL speakers, may be they can share their knowledge.

I would appreciate it if you could post a link to your thread so I may also follow it and learn :)
Avi

#21 greatzero

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Posted 07 March 2014 - 07:53 AM

After consultation with Harman project manager i've decided to use EQ from preset made for XTI2 series amps as they are the latest (VRX900 Crown XTi2 V4 R1). Limiting was set by PDF document "VRX932LA ITech-tunings table":

https://dl.dropboxus...2 limitting.jpg

Will let you all know on monday next week as we do a gig this saturday.

Wish me luck :)

#22 greatzero

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Posted 07 March 2014 - 07:54 AM

will ad the chart straight here.. sorry

Posted Image

#23 dakos

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Posted 07 March 2014 - 08:27 AM

Just one thing to still keep in mind, the difference between 113V and 131V is not that relevant since it's much less then 3dB, but the RMS limiter setting of 2400W you decided to use doesn't take power compression into consideration, only speaker damage, so if you're halfway into your show and you feel you're running out of juice this might be the cause.

I wish you the best of luck :-)
If you can upload some pictures of your rig in action, it would be great.
Avi

#24 greatzero

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Posted 07 March 2014 - 08:30 AM

Hmm, thank you. Should I better change this parameter back to 600W?

#25 theguitarfreak

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Posted 07 March 2014 - 08:51 AM

View Postdakos, on 27 February 2014 - 12:30 AM, said:

Added a comment about the headroom, was everything clear enough?
Avi

Thanks a lot Dakos. Its more or less clear. I have two systems in my company.  One indoor system where we use VRX and for outdoor shows we use DAS Aero 50. I ordered MA5000i for running the VRX. I will be running 2 VRX932LA coupled running at 4 ohms from one channel of MA5000i. I know the speakers need an rms power of 1600w at 4 ohm so ideally my amp should be 3200w per channel to provide peak headroom. But I think I will have to go with the 5000i which is 2500w per channel due to budget constraints. So going by this what do u think should be my rms and peak limiter settings on the amp so I get the max headroom without burning the coil.

#26 dakos

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Posted 07 March 2014 - 09:19 AM

View Postgreatzero, on 07 March 2014 - 08:30 AM, said:

Hmm, thank you. Should I better change this parameter back to 600W?
I'm not sure but I think you have a small yet very common misconception. The way we hear sound makes us think the change from 1W to 10W is precieved the same as going from 1000W to 10000W, so 600W is not so little!!

That depends on how much headroom you need, 600W would give you just a bit under 12dB, you should be fine with just 12dB, if you run into the limiters or if the clip light is on too much then it means it wasn't enough and you should adjust it for the next show.

#27 greatzero

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Posted 07 March 2014 - 10:23 AM

Thank you! Will report.

#28 dakos

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Posted 07 March 2014 - 08:48 PM

View Posttheguitarfreak, on 07 March 2014 - 08:51 AM, said:

View Postdakos, on 27 February 2014 - 12:30 AM, said:

Added a comment about the headroom, was everything clear enough?
Avi

Thanks a lot Dakos. Its more or less clear. I have two systems in my company.  One indoor system where we use VRX and for outdoor shows we use DAS Aero 50. I ordered MA5000i for running the VRX. I will be running 2 VRX932LA coupled running at 4 ohms from one channel of MA5000i. I know the speakers need an rms power of 1600w at 4 ohm so ideally my amp should be 3200w per channel to provide peak headroom. But I think I will have to go with the 5000i which is 2500w per channel due to budget constraints. So going by this what do u think should be my rms and peak limiter settings on the amp so I get the max headroom without burning the coil.

Dear theguitarfreak,
The peak limiter for 1, 2, 3 ,4 or whatever number of speakers connected in parallel is the same, you saw the calculations we did for Peter so either choose the 131V or 113V, you'll have a bit better protection with the 113V.

As for RMS limiting and headroom, headroom is something you create by the way you configure your rig, the need for different headroom settings depends mostly on the type of music you play, so what type of music do you intend to play?
Avi

#29 greatzero

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Posted 08 March 2014 - 03:04 PM

Posted Image

#30 theguitarfreak

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Posted 09 March 2014 - 12:31 AM

View Postdakos, on 07 March 2014 - 08:48 PM, said:

View Posttheguitarfreak, on 07 March 2014 - 08:51 AM, said:

View Postdakos, on 27 February 2014 - 12:30 AM, said:

Added a comment about the headroom, was everything clear enough?
Avi

Thanks a lot Dakos. Its more or less clear. I have two systems in my company.  One indoor system where we use VRX and for outdoor shows we use DAS Aero 50. I ordered MA5000i for running the VRX. I will be running 2 VRX932LA coupled running at 4 ohms from one channel of MA5000i. I know the speakers need an rms power of 1600w at 4 ohm so ideally my amp should be 3200w per channel to provide peak headroom. But I think I will have to go with the 5000i which is 2500w per channel due to budget constraints. So going by this what do u think should be my rms and peak limiter settings on the amp so I get the max headroom without burning the coil.

Dear theguitarfreak,
The peak limiter for 1, 2, 3 ,4 or whatever number of speakers connected in parallel is the same, you saw the calculations we did for Peter so either choose the 131V or 113V, you'll have a bit better protection with the 113V.

As for RMS limiting and headroom, headroom is something you create by the way you configure your rig, the need for different headroom settings depends mostly on the type of music you play, so what type of music do you intend to play?
Avi

It will mostly be loud rock bands and DJ playing.