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general System architect question(s)


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#1 Schmuck

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Posted 24 February 2006 - 02:04 PM

Couple things I noticed

1) What does the dB number in the input sensitivity section relate to?  While the amp shows the 1.40 V /37.9 dB, SA shows 1.40 in the grayed out box and a number from 0 to 8ish in the dB box.  I am a little lost on what that number relates to.

2) In SA, there are the bandpass cross over filters (high and low pass) for both channels, but in iqwiq 8 there are 4 filters.  The SA filters use filters number 1 and 3 of iqwiq.  Is there a way to see filters 2 and 4 in SA.  I am not looking to use them, I just found a mistake in one of my newly written presets due to a filter 2 being engaged, that I couldn't see in SA.  I have noticed similar problems when I turned on a 1.301 amp that was connected to the network at the same time.  

3) In SA, if I have a venue open, and go and switch my network connection to say get on a wireless connection, and get on the web, and then switch back to my setup hardwired connection, SA doesn't communicate properly with the amp anymore, and I actually have to cycle power on the amp to see it correctly again.  With iqwiq 7.2, I have done this many times with no ill effects, and the amp returning just fine.  I have only done small testing with v8, but it appears to do this fine as well.

4) While doing the above, I have grown used to seeing my iq error window pop up to say an amp is offline, and maybe I just haven't turned something on in SA, but other than the box that says IT xxxx - online going to offline, will any error report window try to catch my attention? (I personally do like that)

5) Finally for now, if an Itech falls in the forest while connected to SA does it make any sound?  (sorry been lookin at this laptop for too long) biggrin.gif

I know I still have to experiment with any password lock out stuff at some point......  I may have some more later.

David

#2 Bradford Benn

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Posted 26 February 2006 - 01:27 PM

Howdy-

Here are the answers to your questions...

QUOTE
1) What does the dB number in the input sensitivity section relate to?  While the amp shows the 1.40 V /37.9 dB, SA shows 1.40 in the grayed out box and a number from 0 to 8ish in the dB box.  I am a little lost on what that number relates to.


This number illustrates two seperate things. The 1.4V indicates that it takes 1.4V to drive the amplifier to full output. This results in an amount of gain through the amplifier of 37.9 dB.

QUOTE
2) In SA, there are the bandpass cross over filters (high and low pass) for both channels, but in iqwiq 8 there are 4 filters.  The SA filters use filters number 1 and 3 of iqwiq.  Is there a way to see filters 2 and 4 in SA.  I am not looking to use them, I just found a mistake in one of my newly written presets due to a filter 2 being engaged, that I couldn't see in SA.  I have noticed similar problems when I turned on a 1.301 amp that was connected to the network at the same time. 

The filters are different because of the difference in SA allows for 48dB/octave slopes where IQwic only allows 24dB/octave filters. There is no way to show Filter 2 and 4 as they are actually being used to allow for the 48dB/octave slopes.

QUOTE
3) In SA, if I have a venue open, and go and switch my network connection to say get on a wireless connection, and get on the web, and then switch back to my setup hardwired connection, SA doesn't communicate properly with the amp anymore, and I actually have to cycle power on the amp to see it correctly again.  With iqwiq 7.2, I have done this many times with no ill effects, and the amp returning just fine.  I have only done small testing with v8, but it appears to do this fine as well.


Can you tell us what version of Windows you are running, XP Pro or Home and what service pack? I just tried to recreate your problem and I am not able to get it to fail.

QUOTE
4) While doing the above, I have grown used to seeing my iq error window pop up to say an amp is offline, and maybe I just haven't turned something on in SA, but other than the box that says IT xxxx - online going to offline, will any error report window try to catch my attention? (I personally do like that)


These errors will appear in the error window or event log in System Architect. I will place your request for the window to unhide when an even occurs as a feature request.

QUOTE
5) Finally for now, if an Itech falls in the forest while connected to SA does it make any sound?  (sorry been lookin at this laptop for too long) biggrin.gif

Yes, but all the engineers around will say that it needs more cowbell wink.gif

Hope that helps.
-=Brad

Bradford Benn
Business Development Manager - Crown International
http://www.crownaudio.com/

#3 Schmuck

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Posted 26 February 2006 - 10:51 PM

QUOTE(Brad Benn @ Feb 26 2006, 01:27 PM)
Howdy-

Here are the answers to your questions...

QUOTE
1) What does the dB number in the input sensitivity section relate to?  While the amp shows the 1.40 V /37.9 dB, SA shows 1.40 in the grayed out box and a number from 0 to 8ish in the dB box.  I am a little lost on what that number relates to.


This number illustrates two seperate things. The 1.4V indicates that it takes 1.4V to drive the amplifier to full output. This results in an amount of gain through the amplifier of 37.9 dB.




I get what the numbers  (1.4V - 37.9 db) that both the itech's faceplate and the IQwiq software use and understand their purpose.  It's the number that changes in SA 1.05 that makes no sense to me.  It goes from 0 to 8.xx dB, and I can't find anything listing what that number actually is related to.  I can't get it to equal a value equal to the other values with any "conversion" program or formula.  I have the numbers in that I want as far as 1.4v or 37.9 dB that I got to by looking at the face or the grayed out box while programming presets.  What I can't figure out is that SA says a number of 8.xx dB in the box that allows you to change the value (I put the xx because I don't have the program open in front of me now, and cannot remember the exact number it was showing me when connected to the amp).  It is a new number/labeling convention to me, and I am curious as to what it relates to.  I guess I was expecting that SA might use the same numbers I have been using for amplifiers for years of various manufacturers, but it is new to me and everyone I have asked.

As for the version I am using, it is the latest SA, XP pro (on a dell 8600), and until I am at the shop, I can't say what service pack.

I have got iqwiq to not see the amp after SA was comunicating fine, and my remedy was to cycle power on the amp since my last post.  The IQ utility did not even see the amp until power was cycled.  I will attempt to get a more detailed list of what things I did/do posted so you can see if you can recreate.

#4 DGlass

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Posted 27 February 2006 - 12:20 PM

I have checked with the engineers on the db gain display of the I-Techs in System Architecture. Here is what I am told is going on. That 0-8.6 number represents the amount of gain that is being done at the Input side. This is the number that is added to the gain of the amplifier side of the device for the whole device gain.

It is basically a different way of looking at the world. Instead of looking at the whole device gain, like we do in IQwic, in SA when you are in the "Input" block you are only looking at the input side of the information.

It's not necessarily a bug so much as it is a matter of view as to how you look at the data. I have brought this up to engineering and marketing as to if this is the way we wish to look at the information or not and it is being looked into. Hopefully by the next release of SA we will have it cleared up with a Help file that explains it.

Good Catch though. smile.gif

PS. BTW SA also allows for a Band Pass Gain in the I-Techs to do makeup gain after the filter section. blink.gif

#5 Schmuck

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Posted 28 February 2006 - 10:56 AM

QUOTE(DGlass @ Feb 27 2006, 12:20 PM)
I have checked with the engineers on the db gain display of the I-Techs in System Architecture. Here is what I am told is going on. That 0-8.6 number represents the amount of gain that is being done at the Input side. This is the number that is added to the gain of the amplifier side of the device for the whole device gain.

It is basically a different way of looking at the world. Instead of looking at the whole device gain, like we do in IQwic, in SA when you are in the "Input" block you are only looking at the input side of the information.

It's not necessarily a bug so much as it is a matter of view as to how you look at the data. I have brought this up to engineering and marketing as to if this is the way we wish to look at the information or not and it is being looked into. Hopefully by the next release of SA we will have it cleared up with a Help file that explains it.

Good Catch though. smile.gif

PS. BTW SA also allows for a Band Pass Gain in the I-Techs to do makeup gain after the filter section. blink.gif
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cool thanks

As for more info on how I "stop" communications between the laptop and the amp, here is what I just did.  Amp is a IT4000 this time (different amp than the 6k I used when I did this before, obviously), pc is dell inspiron 8600, XP pro ver 2002 service pack 2, SA ver 1.05.1.0, TCP/IQ Utility v8.0.0.3, IQWiq v8.0.0.3 and the amp at display fw v2.0.1.12, dsp fw v2.0112.  This exercise kept SA talking, but TCP/IQ Utility lost its ability to see the amp (as well as IQWiq) until cycling power on the amp.  I started with the amp in SA, loaded all the presets and then changed the attenuation from the laptop, just to make sure controls were working.  Then I went to network connections, and disabled the local area connection and enabled the wireless network connection.  I opened a web page, got it to load a non-cached site, closed it, disabled the wireless and re-enabled the local.  A moment later the "sync w/ amp" window opened up from SA.  (I may be calling that the wrong name)  I had it receive all presets from the amp, and it was back online, I changed attenuation from the laptop to verify, all ok.  Then I closed SA, and opened TCP/IQ Utility.  At this point is where the TCP/IQ did not see the amp.  I clicked discovery, with no change.  The correct ip is displayed in the lower left corner.  I also tried disabling and re-enabling the LAN, with no change.  As soon as I power down the amp and turn it back on, it is visible to TCP/IQ Utility or IQWiq.  Don't know if that's a problem or not, or something local to this pc, but that's what I did 10 minutes ago.

David