hfc7713

New Crown X series amps.

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I just ordered the Crown X4000 amp. It is the 'Stupid deal of the day' today on Musicians friend. I use DBX Driverack as my crossover and did not require DSP in an amp so this looks like a good fit for me. Thing is, I cannot find it listed even on the CROWN website. It only seems to be listed for sale from Musicians Friend and Woodwind Brasswind who are owned by the same company. Does this mean it is only sold through this chain? I know companies like Costco do that with manufacturers and they are a little cheaper and have maybe a different few features. Anyway, does anyone have any experience with the X series amps?

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To the best of my knowledge it is under the UK crown site so if you're looking on the US web page you wouldn't see it.

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Thanks Dakos.

I just checked out the Crown website again - this time UK and rest of the world under 'select your region' but still no luck.

I came across a comment online from a google search indicating that is is part of the XLI series but the specs do not correspond. Aesthetic design looks the same apart from the color.

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Correction....specs do correspond to the XLI 3500 according to the manual I was able to pull up. I wonder why the info is not readily available as it is with all other products.

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You are correct, I couldn't find any other data on the amp. A call to the support team is worth the effort...

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So, I took your advice Dakos and called Crown technical support today. Really nice guy!!! I spent way too long on the phone with him and he couldn't have been more helpful. I found out that the X series amps are exactly the same as the XLI's but made specifically for the Guitar Center/ Musicians Friend group. Also that although the XLI series only carries 1 year warranty, the X series carries 3 - explained to me to be a courtesy to the group as such a big customer. The amp itself is older technology and heavier than the likes of the XLS and XTI's etc. He said the X series is 'bare bones'. I was advised to use it on my subs rather than the mids as it is a little 'dirtier' than the newer style amps. I also got the impression that although according to the reviews I was able to find online indicating these amps are very well received, I might be taking a step backward from my XLS's and XTI that I use currently. Value for money - I believe they are a good deal especially as I only paid $599 on the 'Deal of the day' . I read someone saying that they are XTI's without DSP but the rep said they are certainly not. I don't know much about the science behind amplifiers but I got the distinct impression that these are old school. He suggested as I have already paid for mine and it is on its way, I should at least try it out and I might like it. He says It will have a different sound to my XTI. He seemed very knowledgeable but a lot of what he said went over my head a little bit. I did learn about damping factors and learned the X series is not very high. Is also does not bridge at 4 ohms ( not my plan anyway) or go down to 2 ohms stereo. I wish I could explain things better and be more informative but I hope this helps anyone looking at these amps.....

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I'm glad you found calling them usefull, they are usually nice and informative :)

Don't worry about the amps damping factor but rather the whole system dumping factor, just use short thick speaker cables and you'll be more then fine. Buy these 10 AWG cables, they are very good, I use them all the time. I buy the longest cable he's offering and I'm cutting it to the length I need and put an original Neutrik SpeakOn connector on the ends.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/270829101705?

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Understood. My cables are pretty nice - although 12 gauge I think - all neutrik connectors. I'll try it thie weekend and see how it goes...thanks again!!!

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One last thing I forgot to mention. It comes with a 20 amp cable. Will this be a problem if switched to 1.4v (it is switchable to .775v)??? I am used to the XTI's and XLS's where this isn't a problem. I wasn't aware of this till the amp arrived. I have been told it is due to the conventional transformer power supply. I didn't use it at the weekend because I was unsure of the 20 amp thing. Don't want any issues in bars and similar.

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I don't understand the connection between the 20 amp cable and the input sensitivity (1.4V vs 0.775V)?

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Nor do I..... Sorry I threw that out there and confused you. The only reason I mentioned that was because I thought they were connected. My other amps are 1.4v and I figured it made sense that this was one of the factors that determines a 15 amp or 20 amp draw. My main concern is dealing with a 20 amp draw in the average bar or club situation. Do you think it will cause problems? Would I be better off returning the amp for another XTI or XLS style amp to avoid tripping fuses?

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If the 20A thing is a problem in the bars you play in then I would say yes, you need to go the XTi/XLS route although I don't have the current draw specs of this amp. What are you powering with this amp?

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An amplifier won't produce massive power out of thin air! If the manufacturer provided the amp with a 20 amperes plug, it means the amp have a good chance of exceeding what a normal 15 amperes outlet can provide, hence a 20 amperes service is preferable. Depending on the volume you need, the load you connect to the amp and your tolerance to the risk of tripping a breaker mid-show, you may try to use a 15 amperes outlet anyway. Or have a proper 20 amperes service installed and sleep well at night knowing you won't lack power.

A class-D amp will consume less power than a class-AB one, for the same power output. This may be significant if your available AC power is limited.

The input sensitivity have nothing to do with the amp consumption.

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Adding to what you're saying, the XTis are class AB+B (except for the 6002 which is class I, Crowns implimentation of class D) and the XLS is class D.

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Thank you for your help. FYI... I use one srx715 per side and one srx 718 per side. I bi-amp the 715's. I use an older Carvin HT760 to power the highs, Crown XTI4002 to power the mids and 1 x Crown XLS2000 bridged per side (2 total) for the lows. This works really well but I was trying to get the most out of the mids by adding a bigger amp. The XTI4002 is 650w per side and the X4000 is 1000w per side. Also, I could try other combinations to get more power. I probably don't NEED another amp but it was such a good price and I got a bit carried away to be honest!! I have never had power issues in the past and quite frankly I have tried to steer clear of amps that draw 20amps simply because of the horror stories I have read. I'd rather be safe than sorry. I never need crazy levels and I have plenty of headroom. Even though the mids are maybe underpowered a little, they never seem to lack for volume. Thank you for putting me straight about the .775v , 1.4v thing. I read it somewhere.....gotta stop believing everything I hear!!! (unless it comes from you guys of course ha ha)

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Since you are using the X4000 on 8 ohms mids, I think that a 15A service will be enough. This is considered a light load on an amp! :)

About the input sensitivity switch, the 0.775V setting should be used if the amp is fed by a DJ mixer, and the 1.4V setting is the standard if a pro mixer is used.

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Your speakers have more potential in them if you were to drive them with a more appropriate amp... for the tops I guess a bridged XTi4002 for each 715 is a good fit, but for the 718 not so, they could really use an itech but that also has a 20A cable :( so again a bridged XTi4002 for each 718. Also you should put them right next to each other to gain some free SPL (+3dB) and also sum the signal going to the subs. All that being said, if you're happy with the sound of you rig, I wouldn't change a single thing!!!

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Thanks Guys....I always appreciate the time you spend helping us newbie types. I continue to learn. I'll upgrade the system as time goes by and money allows.....till then, I'll try different configurations with what I have till I get close to what I want...

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So I was finally able to do a side by side comparison of my XTI4002 and the X4000. I had 2 other people listen with me and with exactly the same input source - my ipod in mono, through the same mixer, I connected left channel of mixer to left channel of XTI and the right channel to the right channel of the X4000. Then one channel of each amp to one speaker each. Sound quality wise, we could hear so little difference, it wasn't worthy of comment. I thought it would be a little more obvious that that especially as they are very different amps according to what I have been told by Crown. What surprised me though was that although into 8 ohms, the XTI gives 650w and the X4000 gives 1000w, the X4000 was MUCH louder!! With gain set at 2 o'clock on the XTI, I had to turn down the X4000 to 9 o'clock to hear the same volume. I didn't think that it would be that different. Does that sound right and was it a fair comparison????

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First, the difference between 650 watts and 1000 watts is less than 3 dB. This is not "way louder", it's actually barely noticeable by ears. What you are observing is the gain of the amps, which is higher on the X4000. This is the input sensitivity switch we were discussing earier. Set it to 1.4 volts and the volume should be more similar to the Xti.

Also note than when you want to compare components, you must adjust their gain so they put out the the same output, before listening. That means playing a tone thru the system and setting the gain with a SPL meter to less than 1 dB difference. This must be done because our brain will automatically prefere the louder of the two. That's psycho-acoustic for you! When you match the gain (volume) then you are really comparing the sound.

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Thanks Deromax for the reply. I knew there had to be more to it than that!!, The reason I asked was because I knew the difference shouldn't be that noticeable at 3db. ProbIem is I don't know how to measure the SPL with a meter. Do I simply purchase one and is it easy to use? Also, the input sensitivity was set at 1.4v on both amps so that didn't change anything. I suppose the bottom line is that I like the sound of the amp, It has clarity and thump and measuring it is a moot point if it does the job - right???

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Yes, no amount of scientific testing will change how one is happy with a component over another! Trust your ears!

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If you own an iPad, iPhone or iPod, there are a few [audio suite] apps around on iTune. Some of these apps go for a few bucks and some are probably free!

I have an FFT/SPL meter app that works with the internal mic to sample audio to give you real world measurements. It also incorporates an oscillator for testing!

Also, if it's any indication, the XLI3500 (UK only!) weight is around 22kg (49lbs). It is very similar to the X4000, specs wise.

Alain

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