k4ng1

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  1. To answer your questions 1. Yes, this system is for a DJ system 2. How many people? Varies from 200 – 400. “It seems ridiculous trying to get everything out of two boxes” Why? Have you heard the SRX725’s without subs? We do have subs but for the smaller end shows it is an overkill dropping subs underneath. We do everything in dual for in our inventory we have the SRX728s which rock. Also we do not beat the crap out of our speakers and it would be just plain and dumb to push 2800watts to the dual 15’s. Just because an amp has power does not mean that one will try and actually get that much power out of them! C’mon…a little common sense is always needed with live sound. Here is JBL’s little marketing spiel on the SRX725’s “For the ultimate in performance and simplicity, a pair of SRX725 speakers, and a single, high-power amplifier delivers superb high-level music and powerful bass. Or add SRX728S dual 18" subwoofers for truly impressive low-end. A pair of JBL 2265H Differential Drive® drivers handles an amazing 1200 watts of continuous power. The 2451 4" compression driver, respected worldwide as one of the finest high powered drivers made, provides smooth, clear mids and highs. Despite this performance, the SRX725 weighs only 100 lbs (45 kg).” As a user, I can personally state that they give us some powerful bass and never cease to amaze for the smaller shows we do. Let’s get back to basics, the SRX725’s are 1200RMS so let’s do the math on 1.5/2x amp power recommendations and we get 1800watts at 1.5x and 2400watts at 2x so when we strap the CE4000 amps we don’t crank all the way up, we feed more juice to the LF and it sounds great in passive. We found that running at 1200watts a side was doing more harm then good and the cabs needed more juice which they now get around 2k a side NOT as you said "2800watts" which I agree is just too much. At most, we go to around 2300watts but no way do we drive into clip. No, we don’t get away with as much as we can by using a laptop. We cut and spin that way we know best through CDJs and 1210’s. Also, most of the music we spin is Bhangra and Bollywood which you may or may not have heard, but regardless it sounds awesome on the 725’s. My posting was not a question on "are we doing the right thing by feed Xwatts to each cab", more so a question regarding the settings I experimented with for bi-amp mode and what needs to be set on the back of the CE4000 amps. I appreciate your input nevertheless… -Arvi
  2. Ok, following on the advice and recommendations in this posting, I tried to run my sound set up in bi-amp mode… The set up: Cabs 2 SRX725’s Amps CE1000 (8ohms stereo) powering the highs CE4000 a side in bridge mono mode powering each cabs lows In my rack, I have a panel which has 4 speakons of which two are wired in mono for both CE4000 amps on CH1 and the other two are for the highs. I have a DBXPA in my rack which is also throw into the equation for the bi-amp set up. Question: Crown Amps: On the back of the CE4000 do I need to have the low pass and high pass filters switched at a certain point? Problems: So having wired everything up, I was good to go with tuning my DBX through the Auto Wizard and selecting what I needed (Bi-Amp) followed by the amps which are used for the highs and the lows. The CE1000 went into the DBX High L/R and for the CE4000 amps I had them going into the DBX lows L/R. I downloaded the recommended settings for the DBX based on the SRX725 Bi-amp configuration and after running the auto wizard I loaded the program. I did not do the other recommend steps for Auto EQ. After that was all done, I then went through the Nav buttons on the DBX and punched in the recommended frequencies for high and lows from the datasheet from JBL. The result: Highs: A distorted sound that was weak and flat. Lows: A very low rumbling sound that was also distorted… Can anyone see where I may be going wrong with the above? Arvi What I would do is run it in a bia-amp config. get yourself a CE1000 for the highs. Now for the low end you have 2 choices. If you want to get the max out of the speakers then buy 2 CE4000's and run them in bridged 4 ohm to each speakers LF inputs. This will put you right on the money. Otherwise a single CE4000 will give you 1200watts RMS per channel. Now if you run just a single amp you have to watch the clipping and be sure to set a subharmonic filter, because with only 1200watts you can easly try to overdrive the amp and send unaudiable distortion to the speakers. If you go with the 2 4000's then just be sure to set your compressor/limiters and you will be ready to go, with more then enough juice to push those woofers. Now there are other amp options but this really is you best bang for the buck with the price of the CE's right now. You can save a few dollars by going with an XLS amp for the highs, but I like the CE series better 3036[/snapback] 3050[/snapback] These are the 2 best options.. You can run 2 CE4000's each in 4 ohm mono, one to each cab in passive mode. This will power both the highs and the lows. This will make your system rock. Now the second option is a little more expensive but will give you a little more clarity and abit more tuning ability. By running a ce1000 in 2 channel stereo 8ohms you can power each stacks HF giving them plenty of power (the HF is rated 75w RMS, 150 Program & 300 max, so the ce1000 is perfect) you then do liek the above and run each CE4000 in bridged 4ohm and this time only power the LF on each cab. This will now allow you to run the highs and the lows seperatly for better control over the sound, you really would need a 2 way crossover and to really make the unit shine a DBX Rackdrive PA (which will do EQ, compressor/Limiting, Crossover, Delay, ETC) would be a perfect fit. And the Rackdrive already has all the setting for this setup, so you would just plug in the equipment and through the prompts select the JBL's you have, then select BI Amped and choose the amps, and it will already have the required settings for you. It even goes as far as telling you where to set the gains on the crown amps. And as a bonus it has a nice feedback eliminator as well.. 3056[/snapback]
  3. Makes sense, thanks. I think I am going to try option 1 first before trying option 2. I have a DBX PA in my amp rack that hardly gets used when we use the 725’s and it used more so for when we add the 728s subs. From what I have read, you are recommending that in order to get the most out of the 725’s I can run each cab on one CE4000 in 4ohms mono, which if I understand right will give me a whopping 2800watts per cab. When you state 4ohms mono, I assuming bridge mono, correct? I pulled this spec from the CE4000 manual 4ohm Bridge-Mono 2800watts If my understanding is correct, then I cannot wait to try it this way and see what we can really get out of the 725’s with a much powerful amplifier. Arvi What I would do is run it in a bia-amp config. get yourself a CE1000 for the highs. Now for the low end you have 2 choices. If you want to get the max out of the speakers then buy 2 CE4000's and run them in bridged 4 ohm to each speakers LF inputs. This will put you right on the money. Otherwise a single CE4000 will give you 1200watts RMS per channel. Now if you run just a single amp you have to watch the clipping and be sure to set a subharmonic filter, because with only 1200watts you can easly try to overdrive the amp and send unaudiable distortion to the speakers. If you go with the 2 4000's then just be sure to set your compressor/limiters and you will be ready to go, with more then enough juice to push those woofers. Now there are other amp options but this really is you best bang for the buck with the price of the CE's right now. You can save a few dollars by going with an XLS amp for the highs, but I like the CE series better 3036[/snapback] 3050[/snapback] These are the 2 best options.. You can run 2 CE4000's each in 4 ohm mono, one to each cab in passive mode. This will power both the highs and the lows. This will make your system rock. Now the second option is a little more expensive but will give you a little more clarity and abit more tuning ability. By running a ce1000 in 2 channel stereo 8ohms you can power each stacks HF giving them plenty of power (the HF is rated 75w RMS, 150 Program & 300 max, so the ce1000 is perfect) you then do liek the above and run each CE4000 in bridged 4ohm and this time only power the LF on each cab. This will now allow you to run the highs and the lows seperatly for better control over the sound, you really would need a 2 way crossover and to really make the unit shine a DBX Rackdrive PA (which will do EQ, compressor/Limiting, Crossover, Delay, ETC) would be a perfect fit. And the Rackdrive already has all the setting for this setup, so you would just plug in the equipment and through the prompts select the JBL's you have, then select BI Amped and choose the amps, and it will already have the required settings for you. It even goes as far as telling you where to set the gains on the crown amps. And as a bonus it has a nice feedback eliminator as well.. 3056[/snapback]
  4. Perfect timing for this question Dave, as I was about to post a question about the amp I use for my pair of 725's. I currently run a single CE4000 amp (1200watts a side) for the 725's and I thought (before reading the advice here) that the sound was great. We have pounded some decent sized venues. I have overdriven the amp on more the one occasion and know that I am feeding these great speakers little power and when I need that little extra, I don't have it. Question: 6 out of 10 shows we do require no more then the 725's. I think I am going to do what is recommended here. Q: If I buy another CE4000 and set it up bridged 4ohm as suggested, do I still need the CE1000 for the highs or can I get away with the power coming from both amps? Q: If I do need the CE1000, then I assume that each channel is 450watts driven into 4ohms solely for the highs. Q: Also, from my little understanding, are you recommending bridged 4ohms mono for both cabs or are you saying use one Crown CE4000 for the mids (2 15's) and then strap the other CE4000 bridge mono and run that for the sub 15's? I am confused. Sorry, one more... I have never run a bi-amp config - can someone give me the breakdown? Arvi What I would do is run it in a bia-amp config. get yourself a CE1000 for the highs. Now for the low end you have 2 choices. If you want to get the max out of the speakers then buy 2 CE4000's and run them in bridged 4 ohm to each speakers LF inputs. This will put you right on the money. Otherwise a single CE4000 will give you 1200watts RMS per channel. Now if you run just a single amp you have to watch the clipping and be sure to set a subharmonic filter, because with only 1200watts you can easly try to overdrive the amp and send unaudiable distortion to the speakers. If you go with the 2 4000's then just be sure to set your compressor/limiters and you will be ready to go, with more then enough juice to push those woofers. Now there are other amp options but this really is you best bang for the buck with the price of the CE's right now. You can save a few dollars by going with an XLS amp for the highs, but I like the CE series better 3036[/snapback]
  5. If I even attempted to drop an itech 4000 or 6000 into my amp rack, I may have awesome power, but the price I will probably pay is the wife leaving me! Bud, you said it right, it ain’t for us weekend warriors unless of course one has a FAT checkbook. I am waiting for my two CE4000’s to come in to take care of my SRX728s. I read in another posting that the CE4000 is going to be discountinued – is this correct??? If so, why is Crown getting rid of this true workhorse and what is the replacement? I picked up two for a great price and am worried now. I assume that the 3 year no fault will still be applicable regardless? I’ll be back soon, got some more questions. Arvi Hey yea, Get an I-Tech 4000, they are only around $5000.00 Right now 2 CE4000's are about $1800.00 I just cannot rationalize the expenditure for the amps. I can do a lot with $3200.00 If I could afford it, I would love to have I-Tech's! Due to the cost of the I-Tech's and to pay for them via a working band or a DJ, that's a lot of gigs! Maybe with time, they will come down in price where the working (Weekend Warrior) gigger can afford it. The I-tech's were really not designed for US, but if you have the money, go for it! Later, Bud 3030[/snapback]
  6. Thanks for the wealth of information. I will check out more info, but can say that since posting my questions on this forum the little light above my head has come on and things are starting to click. I just stepped back and looked at the logical path of what I wish to do and then reviewed possible routes thanks to the input I received from here If I get confused, I know where to come! Thanks.
  7. Thanks Bud, makes alot of sense and see why it would not be the best thing to wire in Series. I have decided to get two CE4000 amps and bridge them so that I get the 2800watts per cab. I don't want to take chances since the events we do are high profiled and I need the best sound. So, in total I will have 3 CE4000 amps that power the following: x2 SRX725's - 4ohms dual (1200watts a side) X2 SRX728s - 4ohms bridge mono (2800watts a cab) For the subs, on the amp do I need to parallel the channels as show in the manual with jumper placements? The only thing that jumps out at me is the my 725's are delivering 1200watts a side, where my subs are delivering a thundering 2800watts a side. This will probably sound stupid, but with this set up, are'nt my 725's at a disadvantage compared to the subs? Last thing I want it boom boom as opposed to a clear high, mid, low set up. I guess this is where the DBXPA kicks in right? And one more question: I am still going to use Speakon to Speakon and wanted to know the wiring... According to what I read, it goes as follows: At the speaker end: connect the load across the + terminals of the connector so CH1 is the positive and CH2 is the negative. Is this right for the speaker end? What is the connection for the amp end? Thanks again! A couple of things on this, 1) Yes you could wire a 728 in Series and it would now be 16 ohms and then Parallel two cabs together to get to 8 ohms. 2) From what I understand there is a way with the 728's that you can have 1+/1- go to one speaker and 2+/2- go to the other, and each speaker is wired Independently as I have in my Dual 15's. This would be easier and not void a Warranty by reconfiguring the wiring inside your Cab that JBL has done so well. With a 12/4 speaker wire you would Series the speakers at the amp Rack. Bottom Line there are problems with this: 1) In Series if one of the Speakers dies then the Cab would die, like Christmas lights on a tree, when 1 goes out they all go out. 2) You are only gaining 200 watts per cab running them this way rather than just connect them one cab Per Channel at 4 ohms and the CE4000 puts out 1200 watts per Cab! That's 600 watts per speaker, the Series way nets you only 700 watts per speaker and it is a poor inneficeint way of doing things. Series, though rarely done it is Frowned upon in Pro Audio when dealing with large anounts of Power! In the world of Pro Audio, 100 watts will net you really nothing extra, nothing that you would ever experience. It's very negligible. You need to double the Power for a 6dB increase and you will hear the difference! When you put 2800 to 3000 watts to these cabs you will know it! I would wire each cab per Channel and use the 1200 watts per cab. Set your Gain Structure from Mixer to Amp correctly so that at your loudest you do not see any Clip lights on your amps, mark this and DO NOT go over it! I ran like this for awhile until I could purchase another amp, you can too! No matter how excited the night becomes and you'd like that extra little bit of Ooomph, don't push that FADER and clip or your speakers or your speakers may not live to Oooomph again! That's your money and equipment not a yelling crowds! Tomorrow they won't care if your Reconing speakers! I had an outdoor gig and a Greek dancing troup was performing to a CD, They like it really loud and I was right at Max and watching my Clips lights flicker. The Dancers manager asked me to turn it up, I looked right at him and said NO, that's as much as they will get. He looked pretty surprised but just turned and walked away and I did not see him again! I know what the System will do and I will not compromise that for anyone, unless he has lot's of CASH! Good Luck, Bud 2895[/snapback]
  8. Thanks Bud, makes sense. I guess there are different ways to make this work. I have an additional question or another possible route to get these subs fired up... Do you think it is possible to wire the pair of SRX728s cabs (in series) at 8 Ohms and then power them from a bridged CE4000 amp? According to the CE4000 manual, I can get a total of 2400 watts if I go 8ohms Bridge Mono so this would give me 1400 watts a cab, which is underpowered but for what we are going to use them there is no way we can ever push them real hard. Thoughts? There is a switch on the back of the CE4000 that puts the amp into Bridged mode. As far as connecting the speakers to the amp you can use the Binding posts or Speakon at Channel 1 For the Binding posts Bridged, you use the 2 red posts 1+ for Positive and 2+ for Negative. For the Speakon you would need to wire a Speakon to 1+ for Positive and 2+ for the negative, and then at the speaker end 1+ wire to 1+ and 2+ wire to 1-. I use 12/2 speaker wire for my top cabs.. I use 12/4 for my Subs and wire each speaker independantly in the cab 1+/1- to one speaker and 2+/2- to the other Speaker, then combine 1+ and 2+ for the positive and 1- and 2- for the negative at the amp. There are many different options available for wiring Amps to cabs. You could use a 12/4 Speakon cable and run first to the Sub and then a short 12/2 to go from the Sub to the Top cab if using stacks. Then you just have 2 speakon cables one left and one right rather than 4 with 2 left and 2 right or each stack where ever they are. In my amp rack I use the Binding posts to a rack panel with NL4MP-UC chassis speakons. Here is a link to a post at ProSoundWeb about wiring an amp rack. Click here: Amp Rack If you look around at PSW you will see lots of information on 728's and 725's. Good Luck, Bud 2857[/snapback]
  9. Hi, I was wondering if anyone can shed some light on the set up below. DJ Sound System What I run now I run a pair of JBL SRX725's powered by Crown CE4000 amp at 4ohms dual. Each channel at this ohm rating pumps out 1200watts a side which on most occasions I never go near. The JBL cabs are 1200rms. What I am going to do For some bigger shows I am going to add the JBL SRX728s 18" dual subs. To get that true low end I crave for. I am thinking of using another Crown CE4000 amp but this time 4ohms Bridge Mono mode giving me a total combined power of 2800watts so 1400 watts for each sub box. I will be running two sub boxes in total. What I need some advice on... I want to know... 1. The process of creating the 4ohm Bridge Mono setting on the amp and 2. The correct speaker to amp connection since only one channel will be used. Also I be using the Driverack PA once I add the subs so expect to feed everything into the rack and out to my mixer so in the end... I will have.... SRX725 pair running 1200watts @ 4ohm Dual. SRX728s pair running total 2800watts @ 4ohm Bridge Mono Into Driverack and to mixer. Any advice would be most appreciated. Thanks!