Bud Bolf

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About Bud Bolf

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  • Birthday 03/15/1969

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  1. Hi Eddie, You say that you have a dual 15" cab with a horn that is 8 ohms and a 800watt max capacity. The CE2000 in Bridged mode and at 8 ohms is 1320 watts, don't you think that this is a bit much for a 800 watt max speaker cab? When you say that the cab is rated at 800 watts max, what exactly are you saying? What is the RMS / Continuous rating of your dual 15 cabs? DGlass mentioned processing, so what is between your Mackie mixer and your Crown amps. What are you using for this function? A Crossover or a Speaker processor such as a DriveRack? I have a Mackie 24/4 VLZ Pro mixer feeding a DBX DriveRack PA then driving my CE2000 per channel (Top Cabs) and a CE4000, XS900 both Bridged to my dual 15" sub cabs. All three of my Crown amps are set at the 1.4V setting, my amps are not ran with the front level controls fully clockwise. I set my "Gain Structure" starting with my Mackie L/R meters running right at +4 flicker to +7 led, +10 is yellow and +28 is red clip! In my Mackie manual it states, "The meters are calibrated so that a 0dB meter reading indicates a 0dBu Signal level at the Main output jacks" Therefore +4dB is +4dBu level as well. Next in line to my Crown amplifiers is the DRPA. The DriveRackPA meters are rated for maximum input and output levels up to +20dBu. The led meters up to +10 is green, +15 is yellow and +20 is red Clip. I run the DRPA variably at +10 Input and +10 Output, it rarely ever goes to +15 because I have the Limiters engaged. Technically I could set my Crown amps to the +26-dB position (which works best for +10dBu(2.5voltsRMS) but per the DBX DriveRack Forum it is recommended to use the 1.4V input sensitivity setting. The DRPA will even tell you where to put your front level controls. I have used this setup for the past 3 years with great results! Give more information as to your exact setup and equipment being used but I'm sure that you are starting to get the picture on your Input Sensitivity setting. Good luck, Bud
  2. Hi all, I was reading this post and I would like to add a caveat to what Fishel said, I use a Crown CE4000 (2800 watts @ 4 ohms) and a XS900 (2500 watts @ 4 ohms) Bridged for Subs (Dual 15" cabs) These amps have ran all day and or night long (even outside in the hot Sun) without so much as a hiccup! In fact when I check them they look as though they are hardly breathing hard! I believe that how your Power Amps behave, has an awful lot to do with how the overall "System" is setup and operated! This should include the correct AC Power that is supplied to the amps, that the "System Gain Structure" is set correctly, Crossover and EQ settings responsibly set (are you over EQ'ing your cabs to get out of them what they cannot or really was not designed to give, at least per the situation) In other words the right equipment for the right job! ALL things considered the XTI Series of Power Amps should reliably supply the proper amplification to your cabs in either per channel or bridged mode! When I am outside my Subs power amps are ran in Bridged Mode, yet inside a small to mid sized Club, I do not need 2800 and 2500 watts on my subs, especially when the bar is 6 feet away, so they are either ran really backed down or in per channel mode. In regard to Damping, Damping has been discussed in great detail at Pro Audio Forums and it is a spec that does not carry as much weight today as it used to. This is because there is not a standard method established among ALL power amp manufacturers for determining what the Power Amp's actual Damping Spec is! Some manufacturers have used, should we say questionable methods to determine their HIGH Damping spec, because they know that WE look at that figure when choosing a Power amp! I am not saying that Crown does that, but some others do! In other words take it with a grain of salt, it is something to look at but by no means the main spec to key into when choosing a power amp! However with that said, for my Sub cabs I use a 12/4 speakon cable to each cab so as to wire each speaker in the Sub cab individually, then at the Amp rack I use a Rack panel speakon to then combine the pluses and negatives so as to parallel the speakers together. The extra Copper will definitely help the Damping factor! Bottom line, setup and operate your "System" Correctly (from Software to Hardware and everything in between) and you will reap the rewards! Do not....and you will obviously not have a great sounding PA! You can also use a 20Hz to 20kHz test tone to see if you have any "Holes" in your System. Good luck, Bud
  3. Hi Wolfgong, I did not follow up with this post much until I saw Fishel's response today. Let me add a few thoughts. You said that you are crossing your subs at 182Hz, WOW, that's really high! You are actually trying to have your Subs do double duty and also be the Low Mid on your System. You cannot do that or I should say that you can do that but not with good results! Now if you increase your Sub performance you are increasing your Low Mid too! You need to let your Subs be Subs and if your top cabs do not go down to meet them then either replace them or add a Low Mid cab to fill the space. That's why in my response to you I said, "I must also ASSUME that you have your "System" setup to it's Best!" I have found that most times when people are having troubles with their "System" it is because they 1) Chose the wrong components for their System and did not properly plan out (before purchase) how those Components would work together OR 2) Forgot the "Live Sound" Basics and did not do their homework on exactly how to Setup the "System" and run it! They get frustrated and look at the equipment when they were really there own worst enemy! Unfortunately you did both but all is not lost..... You also said, "Fairly flat response curve. No big bumps. No big holes." This is really because you crossed your Subs so high, if you properly Crossed your subs at 90 or 100Hz you would have a big hole! Did you run a test tone sweep from 20 to 20kHz and if so, heard no bumps? If so then you need to re-configure your Subs, add a Low mid cab to fill the 100Hz to 182Hz hole and Tri-Amp your System. Or an easier fix would be to replace your top cabs to work / match your Subs. Since your original post was in April, I'm sure that you have already done what you needed to do. For others, learn from your mistakes so they do not do the same. When I was learning "Live Sound" some it was OJT (On the Job Training) and the rest was from studying all that I could on the subject. The ProSoundWeb Live Audio Forum is a great place to learn the Basics and Per-fect your System and skills! Link here to the Study Hall.. PSW Study Hall Let us know how you are doing Wolf and if any of this helped, we are all here to help and learn and not to criticize. Good luck to all, Bud PS. There is also a lot of information there about Aux Fed Subs, and ALL things "Live Sound" Also Check out: PSW Lab Lounge
  4. Howdy, Which EV Eliminator i do you have? Is this the one that you have... EV Eliminator i What are you using for a Sub? Is it the EV Eliminator i Sub? You are doing a number of things wrong. First things first, you are going about this setup completly wrong and thus you are having troubles.... You cannot take shortcuts in Live Audio, or should I say, for best results you should just do it right the first time! By using the Mixer as a crossover you are sending "Full Range" frequencies to both your Sub and top cabs! Even if you try and split up your Lows and Highs by using channel pans to left and right you still need a crossover, you will have instruments and frequencies that will exist both in your Subs and your top cabs. The only way to properly do this is with a Crossover, or a DSP Digital Speaker Processor such as a DBX DriveRack, though everyone is making them today. If I was you, I would pick up a DSP, it's the only way to go.. Your hum with the Crossover may be a ground loop... does all of your equipment have 3 prong ground plugs? I always plug all of my Front of House (FOH) equipment such as Mixer, DSP, Effects, Compressor, Etc into the same AC line and on a dedicated breaker, meaning, do not use an outlet or AC line that is being shared by anything else, especially lights! Does your Crossover use XLR cables or 1/4" plugs? If it has XLR connectors then definately use them. If it has 1/4" jacks only, then check to see if your Mixer outs and the Crossover's in's and out's are Balanced, if so, then use 1/4" Balanced cords to interconnect the equipment! So check it out, if your Crossover cannot be used then do yourself a favor and ASAP find a Crossover that works or a DSP. If you replace the Crossover make sure and get one with XLR In's and out's. With the Frequencies properly Crossed you can then do what you want, the Lows will go to channel 2 and your Mains will go to Channel 1 or visa-versa. You will be able to control your Frequencies such as Subs from 40Hz (High Pass Filter) to 90 or 100Hz (Low Pass Filter) and your Top cabs around 100Hz (High Pass) to 16kHz (Low Pass) Your Subs should also have a downslope of at least -18dB or more at your High Pass Filter setting, this way you do not send Frequencies to your Subs that will overpower them and fry your Voice Coil! Ditto for your top cabs. Without this type of setup you may pay more in the long run for repairing speakers, and being embarrased at gigs for the quality of sound and if something goes wrong! You can damage your Sub and also damage the horns and drivers in your Top cabs if driven outside their limits! There is really no substitute for just doing it correctly! My biggest recomendation would be, do not spend too much time disecting why this bad setup will not work, but spend your time and money on exactly how to acheive WHAT the best setup for you and your system is, and then make it happen! You will thank yourself many times over with great sounding and successful gigs! Before you even buy anything you should always "Do your Homework" it will ensure that you will not only spend your money wisely but be happy with the outcome! You are here NOW and asking and that's great but you should have come here before you got into this situation. You have just learned one of your most important lessons. First off, why not read this from the Crown Website... How Much Power Do I Need? The EV Eliminator i's (if yours are the one's above, if not I'll use them as an example) The EV Eliminator i's with a 15" and a horn are rated at 350 watts Continuos at 8 ohms, which means that they should be powered with between 1.5 to 2x that rating, which would be between 525 watts (1.5x) to 700 watts (2x) at 8ohms. If you paralleled two of these cabs together to get to 4ohms, (as you have) then they should be powered with twice that much because the speaker cabs are now sharing the power. That would mean between 1050 to 1400 watts at 4ohms. The CE2000 per channel is 660 watts at 4ohms, which means that your cabs are now getting 330 watts each which does not leave a lot of dynamic headroom, so be careful of clipping. The EV website states a recommended power amp rating of between 250 to 400 watts RMS, but also goes onto say that that rating does not leave room for dynamic headroom or bursts. You have been using these speakers so you should know how they have been and if you are happy with them. To hear a difference (+3dB) you would need to double the power to the speakers. If it was me I would be throwing between the 1.5x to the 2x power to continous rating, with amps such as a CE4000, XTi4000, XS1200, etc. The bottom line for you, with or without a larger amp, is to do yourself a favor and get a DSP or Crossover that will work and setup your system correctly. Make sure to setup your System Gain Structure correctly and do not Clip the CE2000! Good luck, Bud
  5. Hi again, Since you say that you are a newbie, I have included a few items for your spare reading time. Gain Structure ProSoundWeb Study Hall The Rane website's "Library" is also a great place for learning information. Scroll down the page and check it out! Rane Library Also since you have a Peavey VSX26 here is Peavey's Forum... Peavey Forum Sorry that this is a little late for your Friday Gig but will help you towards your next Gig's Good luck, Bud
  6. Howdy, I'm going to give you a link to Michael "Bink" Knowles web site: Bink's Audio Test CD If you have the ability (or a friend does) to burn a CD of Bink's Audio Test CD I highly recommend it! It does contain 20 minutes of "Pink Noise" that you can play through your system. Myself I like the "Log Sweep" because you can check your Crossover settings. The Log Sweep will run a test tone from the lowest to the highest frequencies, if you hear a bump or a stutter break in the frequency tone between your Subs and top cabs, then you need to adjust your crossover points until the tone smoothly transitions from the Subs to Top Cabs. The other various tones will help you with setting your PEQ for various frequencies such as Kick drum etc. I use a DriveRack and together with the "Bink Audio Test CD" the combination has been indespensible in helping me to set up and Tweak my System! As far as using Pink Noise to setup your system, though it can be a useful tool, if not done correctly, it can just be "GIGO" Garbage In, Garbage Out! To do it correctly, Mic placement is very important, as well as initially setting up your System outside, where there are no boundries (for the frequencies to bounce off) to get a true un-colored reading of your System! Myself, I do not use Pink Noise to setup a room that we are playing in..... mainly because a live venue such as a Nightclub, Bar, Etc.. would not appreciate the Noise and Volume that I would have to put it at to do so, especially with paying customers sitting there. As mentioned above, the best use of it is for an initial setting up of your System (outside) to get a clear picture of your System's frequency responses, be them good and bad, so you know what frequency adjustments need to be made. Good luck, Bud
  7. Howdy, Let me see if I can help you out a bit. Here is the JBL JRX speaker Specs: The JRX125's recquire a Power Amplifier that is rated between 500 to 1000 watts at 4 ohms. The XS900 is rated for 900 watts output at 4 ohms, so it will work great for these two speakers. The idea of Running your speakers "Full Range" is not wise and could send damaging frequency's to your JRX speakers. To deal with the frequency limitations of your speakers, you have two choices.. 1) 31 band EQ with a Fixed or Variable low cut filter. If there is no such filter on your EQ, then do not use it by just pulling down the Low or High faders! OR 2) A Crossover or Speaker DSP Processor such as a DriveRack etc... I would place either the Crossover or DSP in between the Behringer 2004a and the XS900, and then set the low end frequency cutoff at about 45 to 50Hz and the upper frequency between 12 to 16kHz. One XS900 for the two JRX125's with the speakers ran per channel will as I said work fine. As far as the Monitors go, how you will get 3 monitors into two channels of one XS900, is a bit more tricky. One way, is if two of your monitors are rated at 8ohms, then you could parallel them together to get to 4ohms, you could then have 2 monitors on one channel and one monitor on the other channel. This would give you two seperate monitor mixes, with two people sharing a mix. If your mixer does not have Aux outs for monitor mixes and you are just going to share the main out between the amps, then you can use the Input XLR outs, to go from the first amp to the second XS900. You cannot daisy chain the Outputs between the amps, just daisy chain or share the Inputs. For more specific help, you will need to be more specific as to "What" your exact setup is. Good luck, Bud
  8. Hi Wolf, I am not sure if there is an exact Formula that determines that the Subs / Lower Freq. should be so many times the upper Freq. However if you go to a Concert and see 12 or 16 Sub cabs per side, I am sure that someone has determined that per their Upper cabs / Line array, that that is the amount of Bottom end that is needed. I am sure that many other characteristics come into play as well, such as, is the Concert Inside or Outside, is the Venue a Small, Mid or Large Arena, Etc Etc.... You asked: The Subs will always consume the most of your Power! Period! It takes a lot of Power to move the Low Frequencies! Also I would say below 100Hz, that is where my Subs Crossover at. Above 100 Hz and you will start to hear Vocals in your Subs, unless you are running "Aux Fed Subs!" Per a Install though, I would think that "Aux Fed Subs" would be the way to go! The Subs will be punchier and just better all around, because the Subs will only get what should be in them. "Aux fed Subs" are the Cleanest and pureist sounding. I would be surprised that any Concert that you attend, is not running Aux Fed Subs / Dedicated Subs, if from the Aux or not! In my case (Local Band) my Subs are rated at 1600 watts Continous (4 ohms) and driven at 2800 watts (just over 1.5x the rating in Power amp needs) via CE4000 Bridged at 4 ohms, one amp per sub cab. My Top cabs however are rated at 300 watts at 4 ohms (two 150 watt EV 12" speakers with Horn per cab) they are driven by a CE2000 which is 660 watts per channel at 4 ohms. You can see that my Subs are getting 4X the power that my top cabs are getting and the System sounds great! However in a small club, I only give my subs 1200 watts each (one CE4000 ran per channel not two Bridged) which is very underpowered but they are just used for fill and will never clip! In this scenario my Subs are only powered 2x of what my Top cabs are getting and it is not nearly the same! If your Subs do not seem to be getting it done, make sure that they are being powered correctly. If your Subs are rated at 1500 watts then they should be getting 3000 watts. My Sub cabs are fine at 1200 watts but they virtually come alive at around 3000 watts, big difference. I also have a DriveRack and it's Parametric EQ (PEQ) work wonders for Kick drum, etc.. Rane sells a PE17 that is a great stand alone PEQ. I would not run Subs without a PEQ! There is a lot to be said for their setup! System setup is a science among itself as to how well your entire "System" sounds! I must also ASSUME that you have your "System" setup to it's Best! Who designed the System that is Installed? There must be a reason that those components were chosen, what does the designer say? Where are the Subs placed? This can also make a big difference with Subs performance. There is so much more to consider, than just the amount of power that the Subs get when compared to the upper cabs! There are discussions on other Forums dedicated strictly to ALL things Subs! For a Low Frequency band of 30Hz to 100Hz it gets more discussions than 100Hz to 20kHz In fact Subs have gotten so perfected, at Concerts today (and all music) that there is discussions, that todays "Live Sound" is caught up with producing so much "LOW End" that it has gone to far and and is being abused! You hear more Bass than anything else....but as I said, that is another discussion. At this point you need more repsonse from your Subs! To help you get there much more information is needed, as to what your System consists of........ Later, Bud
  9. Hi Loco, Everything that Chris says is correct. Here is Crown's Paper on Amplifier Power needed.... How MUCH power do I need On a separate note.. Besides correct "Unity Gain" / "Gain Structure" which both deal with the same principal of helping you set up your "System" to it's utmost response, without "Clipping" you will also see that "Limiter's" are also recommended to keep your System under control. Myself I use a DBX Driverack but these days many manufacturers have DSP's for Amp to Speakers Controllers... The new Peavey's are getting good reviews these days, though I have not used one. Beside Bands, DSP's also work well for DJ's. If you are matching JBL cabs to Crown Amps a Driverack would be a great addition. The DriveRacks already have Crown Amp's to JBL cab configurations and Tuning's built in. The DriveRack 260 can be upgraded via download and the PA version needs to have the information manually inputed. The DriveRacks also allow you to "Save and Name" presets per Venue, so you can keep any adjustments that you needed to make, due to a unique room and atmosphere. When you return to that Venue pull up that preset and it is, as it was the last time that you were there. I am not a DriveRack salesman, just a Satisfied customer. I know that you are new to all of this, so it's time for you to be like a sponge and soak up all that you can. When it comes to your knowledge in "Live Sound" the more you know, the better you will SOUND!. Some good places to start: The Rane Library ProSoundWeb Study Hall Check out: Audio Basics. Good luck, Bud
  10. See Below.... I somehow made a early morning double post.
  11. Hi Loco, I checked the Gator Website but did not see if it has rear rack rails or what the Depth of the rack is. I use a Gator GRR-8L rolling rack for my Crown Amps and it works great. I do have the rear of my power amps secured to the rear rack rails. This is in a big part because the rack rolls on it's side and I want the amps secured. This may or may not matter with your Mixer/Amp rack if it is always moved upright. If it will be turned on it's side or moved around alot you may want to secure the rear of the amp. If the rack depth is 16 or 17 inches and your 602D is a little over 15 inches you can secure the back of the amp with rear support's. Like these: Rear Amp Rack Supports I used the one for 3 racks spaces from Parts Express for my CE2000. I did have to drill new holes to match the exact depth to my amp. I screwed the rack ear to the rear rail, slid in my CE2000 and marked the hole's to be drilled with a Sharpie. Since there are numerous combinations of Rack depths I think that there should be numerous holes already drilled into the rack ears but these do not. If you do this I recommend that you use Nylon inserted Locking nuts with bolts, so you can use a socket to tighten. Good luck, Bud
  12. Hi Stuart, Always glad to help! I'd luv to take you up on that beer but the chances of me ever making it to London, is pretty slim! Seeing as I am in South Florida of the good Ole US of A, Ft. Lauderdale, South Beach area, Ditto back at ya! If you ever make it to the States, I'll buy you a beer! Now back to "Live Sound" you have a couple of options on Paralleling your Speaker cabs together. You can of course run a speaker cable to one cab and then to the other. I prefer to install a rack panel in the back of my Amp Rack and then install Neutrik Speakons into it like NL4MP-UC's or NL4MP-ST connectors. This way you parallel the speakers at the Amp Rack. Check this link: Rack Panel Here is one on Daisy Chaining speakers aka Paralleling: Parallel Speakers. Later, Bud
  13. You said, It is only a tough thing if you want "Stereo" Tops. I say only Tops, because it makes no sense to run Subs in Stereo, the low frequencies will never bring out Stereo effects. If you have two single speaker Sub cabs rated at 8ohms each, then I would recommend to parallel them together to 4ohms and then power them accordingly. As far as your Top cabs, unless you are a DJ and really need Stereo effects, then power them individually. If it is in a Live Band scenario or where Stereo effects is really not needed, then they could easily be ran Mono as well. With two 8ohms cabs you pay a premium for Stereo, ask yourself, do you really need it? Try it both ways and decide. You could Parallel your Top cabs and your Subs and power them with two Power amps. A pretty easy scenario to power and run. Good luck, Bud
  14. Hi again, Glad to help. As far as your question: I would think that the main reason is "Growth." If you are never going to add to your setup, then 4ohm speakers would be fine but if you were to double up your current Top cabs or Subs then with two 4ohm cabs paralleled you would be at 2 ohms. Running at 2ohms presents another double edge sword if you will. 1) The only Power amps that I know of, that do run at 2 ohms, does it strictly in "per Channel" mode, none that I know of will Bridge to 2ohms! 2) It is also not a good practice to run continuously and only at 2ohms! The Ohms of your speaker is constantly changing per the Frequency's they produce, i.e.Voltage that is applied to the Voice Coil as in "Ohms Law". If you were to put a Digital meter set to ohms on your speaker you would see that the ohms will change. Only at rest with no input will a speaker have a constantly stable Ohms reading. Thus in summary 2ohms is just too close to "0" ohms for the amateur, you need to really know what you are doing, when and if you are running "High Power" at 2ohms and have such tight tolerances. You can really heat up and fry your voice coils! This is not for the faint of heart or weak in pocketbook! For the reasons mentioned in this post, 4ohms is really the ohms of choice for matching Speakers to Power amps. It is something to consider when purchasing and setting up your PA or System. With 8ohms too high and 2ohms too low, 4ohms sits nicely in the middle. It is Expensive to get "High Power" at 8 ohms and dangerous to do it at 2ohms! But then again that is only my opinion and you know what they say about those. Have fun, Bud
  15. Hi Kiss, There a number a scenario's at play here, some depend on Stereo or Mono operation. If your two 8ohm speakers were in separate cabs and you wanted to run your system in Stereo you would have two options. 1) Use one Power amp per channel, it would indeed need to put out between 750 to 1,000 watts per Channel at 8ohms. OR 2) You could still run Stereo with two Power amps, each one Bridged per speaker that is capable of 750 to 1,000 watts Bridged at 8ohms. If both speakers are in one Cabinet (or separate cabs but ran Mono) then you can Parallel them together and obviously now have a 4ohm load. Your Power in watts would be between 1500 to 2,000 since both the speakers share the watts. You could then.. 1) Use one Bridged Power amp that is rated between 1500 to 2000 watts Bridged at 4ohms. OR 2) Use one Power amp rated at between 1500 to 2,000 watts per Channel at 4 ohms. You can of course solve your power to speakers ratio anyway that you like, but I'm sure that you can see that in some cases, it is just Budget and Expense that force people to use amps in Bridged mode rather than Per Channel. Shoot if you could always run in Per Channel mode, then you would have half of the Power amps, Half of the weight, Half of the Rack spaces, etc.. than someone that is forced to use a Bridged Power Scheme! Per Channel, Is and always will be the Power scenario of Choice, the amps run cooler, better Damping Factor, some say last longer etc...etc... I'm sure that David from Crown can give you all the Technical reasons why Per Channel rather than Bridged is the way to go.. My Subs (dual 15's, 8ohms that are paralleled together) are powered by CE4000's Bridged, to get 2800 watts per cab at 4 ohms. To do that with a Power Amp in Per Channel mode, I would need something like an I-Tech 6000 that is rated at 3,000 watts per channel at 4 ohms! The math is that two CE4000's or now XTi4000's is 1/3 to 1/2 the price of one I-Tech 6000! I would love to own a I-Tech 6000 but since I am in a Club / Wedding / Party Band, I could never rationalize the expense! Maybe someday as with everything, the prices on these "High Power", amps will come down. Look at what is available today to the local musician that was not, many years ago! Some will also argue the fact that in MY scenario, should one CE4000 go down, (and it has) I can (and did) reconfigure my subs to the remaining CE4000 and got through the night / Repair period! If the one I-Tech went down, I would have had NO SUBS at all! Good luck, Bud PS. My top cabs are ran in per channel mode.