aaroneikenberry

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About aaroneikenberry

  1. That makes a lot of sense. With my set up now I can't get the full power of the speakers because I don't have any headroom because I already run it as hot as it can go, or right below cliping/peaking but normally on choruses and such the drummers play harder and I get that peaking.. I thought about buying smaller amps and running them bridged mono in the future but can't afford it right now plus I would have to sell an xti 4000! I am new to running sound and have had some friends tell me that it's ok to peak your amps signal and some tell me it's not. So I appreciate all the info you guys haev given me so far. I was trying to match my amps as close to my speakers continous power because I didn't want some idiot at a show (while im on stage or me being the idiot) to turn things up and blow speakers, but I also definetly want to get the full power out of my speakers! I am also afraid that if I have amps more powerful then my subs can handle at full volume that I will run the risk of trying to get too much sound and blowing the speakers. Not sure how I prevent that. probably a limiter or something. So I guess what I really want to know.... is how I can get my equipment as loud as possible without doing something that will hurt my amps or my speakers. Forums is the only place I can seem to get any real info. Right now it sounds like you have reached the headroom limit you have available. The only thing left to do is try to control what you have. I would set the amplifier?€™s output limiters to at least -3db maybe even -6db. This will help keep the amplifier output under control. You might also try using an outboard compressor/limiter before the amp. Limiting generally has a ratio of from 8:1 to 20:1 so the 266XL will not do limiting. Using hard Limiting in this case may be worse than nothing at all, if set up wrong, as it could decrease the crest factor of the program material and increase the duty cycle of the amplifier usage. This would cause the amplifier to run harder - longer as there would be less dynamics in the material making the speaker work harder - longer and heating up the voice coil. To start I would suggest at least an 8 :1 ratio with the threshold set to turn on Limiting just at those signal peaks. The attack time should be fairly quick and the release time about the same or just a little longer. If you find the amp is still clipping increase the ratio a little to get harder limiting. This way you keep most of the dynamic range of the material but pull back a little on the peaks. Anything that might get beyond that should be controlled by the amplifiers output limiter. Note: Actual setting will be system dependent. Be aware there is only so much juice you can squeeze from an orange. In other words the system has a limit and if peaks try to take it beyond what the system is capable of then you will clip. A few clips now and again is alright but clipping all the time is not. I hope this helps until you can get more power. Before I read this I was looking into putting a DBX 166xl on the whole mix and using the hard limiter... I read some reviews that people said this worked good but they sounded like musicians more then sound engineers. So you think it would be better to use the compression on a 266xl instead of a hard limiter like the 166xl has? Like I said... I don't get constant peaks, but it kind of goes with the flow, more peaks on choruses ect... If you have a dbx 166xl it has a built in peak stop limiter and would be the better choice. The 266Xl is more of a standard compressor. I will edit and clarify my previous posting. I don't own one but I was going to buy one for that purpose. Don't feel obligated to keep helping me im sure you have more important things to do with your time. I do really appreciate you helping me through this so far though and if you want to keep helping that would be great.
  2. That makes a lot of sense. With my set up now I can't get the full power of the speakers because I don't have any headroom because I already run it as hot as it can go, or right below cliping/peaking but normally on choruses and such the drummers play harder and I get that peaking.. I thought about buying smaller amps and running them bridged mono in the future but can't afford it right now plus I would have to sell an xti 4000! I am new to running sound and have had some friends tell me that it's ok to peak your amps signal and some tell me it's not. So I appreciate all the info you guys haev given me so far. I was trying to match my amps as close to my speakers continous power because I didn't want some idiot at a show (while im on stage or me being the idiot) to turn things up and blow speakers, but I also definetly want to get the full power out of my speakers! I am also afraid that if I have amps more powerful then my subs can handle at full volume that I will run the risk of trying to get too much sound and blowing the speakers. Not sure how I prevent that. probably a limiter or something. So I guess what I really want to know.... is how I can get my equipment as loud as possible without doing something that will hurt my amps or my speakers. Forums is the only place I can seem to get any real info. Right now it sounds like you have reached the headroom limit you have available. The only thing left to do is try to control what you have. I would set the amplifier’s output limiters to at least -3db maybe even -6db. This will help keep the amplifier output under control. You might also try using an outboard compressor/limiter before the amp. Limiting generally has a ratio of from 8:1 to 20:1 so the 266XL will not do limiting. Using hard Limiting in this case may be worse than nothing at all, if set up wrong, as it could decrease the crest factor of the program material and increase the duty cycle of the amplifier usage. This would cause the amplifier to run harder - longer as there would be less dynamics in the material making the speaker work harder - longer and heating up the voice coil. To start I would suggest at least an 8 :1 ratio with the threshold set to turn on Limiting just at those signal peaks. The attack time should be fairly quick and the release time about the same or just a little longer. If you find the amp is still clipping increase the ratio a little to get harder limiting. This way you keep most of the dynamic range of the material but pull back a little on the peaks. Anything that might get beyond that should be controlled by the amplifiers output limiter. Note: Actual setting will be system dependent. Be aware there is only so much juice you can squeeze from an orange. In other words the system has a limit and if peaks try to take it beyond what the system is capable of then you will clip. A few clips now and again is alright but clipping all the time is not. I hope this helps until you can get more power. Before I read this I was looking into putting a DBX 166xl on the whole mix and using the hard limiter... I read some reviews that people said this worked good but they sounded like musicians more then sound engineers. So you think it would be better to use the compression on a 266xl instead of a hard limiter like the 166xl has? Like I said... I don't get constant peaks, but it kind of goes with the flow, more peaks on choruses ect...
  3. That makes a lot of sense. With my set up now I can't get the full power of the speakers because I don't have any headroom because I already run it as hot as it can go, or right below cliping/peaking but normally on choruses and such the drummers play harder and I get that peaking.. I thought about buying smaller amps and running them bridged mono in the future but can't afford it right now plus I would have to sell an xti 4000! I am new to running sound and have had some friends tell me that it's ok to peak your amps signal and some tell me it's not. So I appreciate all the info you guys haev given me so far. I was trying to match my amps as close to my speakers continous power because I didn't want some idiot at a show (while im on stage or me being the idiot) to turn things up and blow speakers, but I also definetly want to get the full power out of my speakers! I am also afraid that if I have amps more powerful then my subs can handle at full volume that I will run the risk of trying to get too much sound and blowing the speakers. Not sure how I prevent that. probably a limiter or something. So I guess what I really want to know.... is how I can get my equipment as loud as possible without doing something that will hurt my amps or my speakers. Forums is the only place I can seem to get any real info.
  4. from that comment I take it your runnning an entire band with out the use of 1 compressor. I would recomend getting a few. ok, you will lose dynamics from the track but you will get what appears to be a louder sound. I set mine up on the group inserts on the mixer. if I leave a set up I will put 1 on the master inserts as a limiter or jst wire direct into it from the desk then to the amps. getting compressors set right can really clean up the mix. Have a read up though as setting them wrong will kill the tune. No, I have 2 dbx 266xl comps and I have them on the kick, snare, high tom, and bass. I don't think they have limiters on them. Im not using any kind of limiter as of now. Maybe I just need a bigger system! All I know is that the subs I have should kick hard, but when I feel like they are the input signal clips, not all the time but every couple seconds
  5. Thanks for the help! I am not using the output limiter but sounds like I should be. Im not really understanding how that will help though. Basically that means the amp will limit the kick drum signal as it is about to peak and keep it from doing so? How will I know if it's helping? will the led indicaters still light up red (signifing clipping) even though the actual output signal isnt peaking or by turning the limiter up will that show on the led indicators, so I know im in the right spot when there is no red cpeak light? ALSO if your farmiliar with the xti's... if I set up the output limiter will it store in the amp after its off or willl I have to reset it everytime I run the amp? Aaron If anyone else has any thought keep em coming!
  6. So I have been running 2 xti 4000 power amps for my system. I run 2 eaw dual 15 subs 1000w rms continous at 4 ohms and some sound bridge mains that are 500w rms continous @ 8 ohms. The xti 4000 produces 650w a side @ 8 ohms and 1200w a side @ 4 ohms. So heres my problem, after i get gain levels and everything at U once a full band starts playing the kick drum clips the sub amp and the snare drum clips the mains amp. If I start to turn them down it's just not loud enough in rooms for crowds between 50-200. MY QUESTION - Is it bad for your amps or speakers if the led indicators on the amps clip for a split second every few seconds?. when I have a band playin the level mostly is at the last green light, but the kick drum and snare drum cips the amps every few seconds. Will that wreck my amp? Is it bad for the speakers even if they dont sound distorted when it clips? Im not crankin any of the eqs up either and levels on the board aren't clipping, but their close (allen and heath mixwizard 16:2). If you can shed any light in to this subject it would be much appreciated. Again, everything sound good when this is happening, but I just dont want to blow my speakers or burn out my amps from the clipping. Could that happen or am I ok? And i also dont want to just turn everything down because its not even THAT loud already. Aaron
  7. So I recently bought 2 EAW Dual 15 subs and an xti 4000 to power them. I just want to run them stereo but am having a major problem. When I plug 1 sub into channel 1 and 1 sub into channel two only the channel two sub works. I don't get any response from the sub plugged into channel 1. I ran straight from my mixwizard to the amp and checked all my cords (including speakons) but still nothing. Thought I might have a bad channel, BUT I also bought another xti 4000 for my mains and that amp is doing the same thing. I have checked the manual to make sure that I didn't change to bridge. Still in stereo in DSP OFF. Anyone else having that problem or know how to fix it? I don't want to run bridged mono! So when I try to run two 4 ohm subs from separate channels I get nothing from channel 1, only channel two. I really need help. Thanks, Aaron